Can you provide some sources on how RSS is the nazi model. Or is this all based on just one paragraph from 1938 (before it all happened) in one of the books? Subhash chandra Bose met hitler and asked for help against the British rule, is he a nazi now?
Would love some sources for RSS goons beating up a protester or activist. Mind you RSS and not some random goony org off the street.
No, thanks. I am not interested in helping you whitewash their history. It is common public knowledge that the founders of RSS were an admirer of Hitler and his party. (And they still continue to admire and glorify Hitler). The RSS is also a thrice banned terrorist organization whose members are involved in various communal riots and also assassinated Gandhi.
And no, Subhash Chandra Bose is not a Nazi because he didn't embrace their ideology. He was a secular and left-leaning revolutionary who believed that the British could only be overthrown by violence and revolution, and thus relied on the opportunist political maxim that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"to ally with Germany and Japan. While an inspiring figure in indian politics and its freedom movement, his politics was ultimately foolish, as the Japanese occupation of some parts of India, with his army's support, highlighted - the imperial army of Japan considered us as second-class citizens, as did the Nazis, and showed it with the brutality against the indian citizens in the occupied territories.
Yes, why counter with facts when you can say it’s just “common knowledge”. I will not try to talk you out of your beliefs. But I can assure you from first hand extensive experience, RSS is not “nazi”.
You are making extraordinary claims at least specify one “admiring and continue to admire” source.
“If we Hindus grow stronger, Muslim friends … will have to play the part of German Jews” -- Golwalkar, Father of RSS
"To keep up the purity of the Race and its culture, Germany shocked the world by her purging the country of the Semitic races -- the Jews. Race pride at its highest has been manifested here. Germany has also shown how well-nigh impossible it is for Races and cultures, having differences going to the root, to be assimilated into one united whole, a good lesson for us in Hindusthan to learn and profit by." -- same guy in his book "We -- Our Nationhood Defined"
These quotes are indeed common knowledge and easy to find.
It's easier for westerners to understand. Within India the popular term for them is now Sanghis (for Hindu religious fundamentalists) and MuSanghis (for muslim religious fundamentalists).
From RSSs role in the MK Gandhi's assassination, Gujrat's riots, to the Samjhauta Express bombings, Ajmer Dargah attacks, to the cow vigilatelism, beating up couples at valentine's day - the list is pretty long to consider RSS as Religious terrorists.
Given your knowledge in these matters I am sure you know that Bajrang Dal is part of the RSS ideology in the sense its part of the Jan Sangh. That you chose to ignore that makes me doubt the degree of good faith in your question. You are just trying to poison and cloud the discourse.
OP mentioned RSS as terrorists because their members did violent acts. Now i know a religion whose members are usually involved in terrorists acts. We don't label them as terrorists as it should be.
So tell me. Are you consistent with you beliefs on labeling groups?
That's pretty much all the government cosy media does -- handing out certificates about who is patriotic and who is not.
If members does an act in the name of an org and that is against the values of the organization. Its for the organization to clarify that their values do not match with the cations taken by these group. This is what the farmer protester groups did when violence occurred. This what they did when cell towers were vandalized.
The RSS on the other hand has stayed mum which in normal course of action will be and is taken as tacit support. Of course I don't read all of RSS's press releases. If you have pointers to RSS official press releases where they have condemned specific attacks I would be very interested to read.
> Are you labeling a religion as terrorist because of some of its people
You are just trying to avoid answering the question by adding extraneous and irrelevant diversions. Sorry wont bite your bait. BTW I was not aware that RSS is a religion.
This much I am willing to claim -- RSS is a silent approver of right wing acts of violence starting all the way from Gandhi's assassination to more contemporaneous cow slaughter related lynchings.
Unlike the farmer protests that have distanced itself from acts of violence and vandalism I am unaware that RSS has done that for the violence that has engulfed India in this govt, but am willing to be convinced otherwise.
The spokesmen of the government have frequently branded the entire protest and Khalistani and Pakistani. I am very tickled that you seem to be outraged not by the act of the government which has real implications but on the comment someone made on the internet. That might be quite indicative of where your sympathies lie.
I did not event bait you. I was replying to OP and you inserted yourself.
You got yourself tangled because you could not honestly answer the question. Since you became aware you are not consistent.
See OP mentioned RSS as Religious terrorists because of its members. So to the logical conclusion Hindus are terrorists because of its has organizations like RSS/Guj riots involved in it. So you just called a million Hindus terrorists. Anyway whatever makes you happy.
Yeah keep spreading lies if it helps. It really shows you and those that you support in revealing light.
This is very good because these chats and their logic is public and for all to see and make their own judgements. Thanks for making my job easier.
Pray enlighten me where I have been inconsistent without shoving your words on my mouth, and where I have called a million Hindus a terrorist.
You remind me of Sambit Patra the BJP spokesperson who was asked about the number of zeros that are in trillion when he was going on and on about Indias trillion rupees economy. All this Patra could respond with is invective that the person who asked the question should go and ask Rahul Gandhi -- a cheap rhetorical device used to clutch at straws when one does not have substance to offer.
This is very good because these chats and their logic is public and for all to see and make their own judgements. Thanks for making my job easier. - that goes either way. All can see that you are trying to diverge the conversation instead of answering.
You refusal to answer the question indicates that you agree with it. Else its a simple answer.
Let me ask myself that question. Do you consider a group of people a terrorists simply because some members indulge in it. NO I DO NOT.
That's it man. No grand conspiracy. No name calling nothing. Why not a simple answer. All are inherently biased. But that should not deter us in calling out inconsistently.
Which question have I refused to answer ? I made quite clear where I stand as far as the RSS or the farmer protests are concerned. I will say that yet again, RSS has over its history been a silent approver of acts of violence refusing to distance itself from such acts. The farmer protests had sections, possibly govt sponsored, who indulged in violence. The farmer protest bodies have condemned these harshly and distanced themselves.
On the other hand you have not yet pointed out where I have called millions of Hindu a terrorist or where I have been inconsistent. Its you who called me names (that I consider millions of Hindu a terrorist)
Religious flamewar, nationalistic flamewar, ideological flamewar, personal attacks, and tit-for-tat spats like this one are all badly against the site guidelines and off topic here. We ban accounts that get into this kind of thing. Please don't, regardless of which side you're on or how right you feel it is. It's not what this site is for.
Too deep. I don't like deep comments since it usually means its going nowhere. But assuming you are sincere in your effort to answer the question(Which question I have refused to answer ? I made quite clear where I stand as far as the RSS or the farmer protests are concerned.).
So once again, OP(not you unless you are alt!) said that RSS are religious terrorists because of their activities. Now as as i know they have not denoted a bomb which killed hundreds. But maybe the term applies because of some of their other activities like lynching(Though this happens to Hindus as well, do we then consider the other party terrorist. No answer needed. There would hundreds of comments while you divert away from answering :)
Here goes. One last hurrah
So do i label group of people as terrorists because of some of its members. NO.
For you. You can fill in the blanks.
So do i label group of people as terrorists because of some of its members. __.
Religious flamewar, nationalistic flamewar, ideological flamewar, personal attacks, and tit-for-tat spats like this one are all badly against the site guidelines and off topic here. We ban accounts that get into this kind of thing. Please don't, regardless of which side you're on or how right you feel it is. It's not what this site is for.
Yes. That is correct. But is it applied consistently. The op I responded was calling a group terrorist. I see many comments attacking a religion. I don't any reply suggestion a ban for these. Or I can't see those messages? Whatever be consistent.
We certainly intend to and try to apply the rules consistently, but the problem is that we can't come close to seeing everything that gets posted here. If you see a post that ought to have been moderated but hasn't been, the likeliest explanation is that we didn't see it. You can help by flagging it or emailing us at hn@ycombinator.com.
One thing's clear: political/nationalistic/religious flamewar is not ok on HN regardless of which side people are fighting for or against.
If you look at my comment history think I have stuck to facts and been impersonal. Only transgression was when allegations were made by your parent poster that I called a million Hindu's a terrorist.
That's a ridiculous and defamatory claim. I think I am allowed to ask for clarifications or contest it when words are put in my mouth
I don't see any flagging link. I am not for or against, just wanted to point out the inconsistencies. I can't anyway flag, so would stay away from those threads.
Except that RSS is actually modeled after Italian fascism, and this is not a secret or anything. I was actually being literal there.
Moonje in 1931 went to Italy to learn from Mussolini about fascist organization and ideology, to use it for shaping RSS.
Here is a quote;
"“The Balilla institutions and the conception of the whole organisation have appealed to me most, though there is still not discipline and organisation of high order. The whole idea is conceived by Mussolini for the military regeneration of Italy. Italians, by nature, appear ease-loving and non-martial like the Indians generally. They have cultivated, like Indians, the work of peace and neglected the cultivation of the art of war. Mussolini saw the essential weakness of his country and conceived the idea of the Balilla organisation.... Nothing better could have been conceived for the military organisation of Italy.... The idea of fascism vividly brings out the conception of unity amongst people.... India and particularly Hindu India need some such institution for the military regeneration of the Hindus: so that the artificial distinction so much emphasised by the British of martial and non-martial classes amongst the Hindus may disappear. Our institution of Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh of Nagpur under Dr Hedgewar is of this kind, though quite independently conceived. I will spend the rest of my life in developing and extending this Institution of Dr Hedgewar all throughout the Maharashtra and other provinces.”
