Concern? Why? The virus is under control in countries where the vaccine rollout has been swift. Why do you sound so keen to force something on people that they don't want, regardless of their reasons? Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take? If people can lose their jobs over it then clearly they don't have that right - that's a form of coercion/blackmail.
I think the focus on a small minority of people who don't want to take a vaccine is unhealthy.
> Shouldn't people have the right to choose what they take?
It's not this simple. Not taking a vaccine during a pandemic has negative externalities, since you're increasing the risk of infection and death of those you interact with, you increase the likelihood of consuming scarce resources (such as ICU beds), etc.
I largely agree with you, but framing it as a simple "individual choice" issue is reductive at best.
1. Those who are vaccinated have a significant reduction in risk of death (not to mention that the risk is very minute for young people anyway), so that's a moot point
2. Some vaccinated people have been found to carry the same levels of the virus as unvaccinated people, so stating that unvaccinated people could be increasing risk to others is also a moot point
3. Once the so called "R" rate is below one, the virus is on a path to fizzling out
It's not as though unvaccinated people will be dying in their thousands for centuries to come. Herd immunity just needs to kick in which many countries have already achieved.
> Some vaccinated people have been found to carry the same levels of the virus as unvaccinated people, so stating that unvaccinated people could be increasing risk to others is also a moot point
Some is in this case a small minority. In general you have the same level up to about day 5, then vaccinated drops down to zero over the next few days while vaccinated levels keep raising for several more days.
1) It isn’t a moot point when vaccinated individuals need ICU beds for other emergencies, which are still happening. This isn’t a theoretical, this is happening in the Southeastern US.
No, I'm not saying anything about whether vaccines should be mandatory or not. Whatever your beliefs, you should be taking these externalities into account. I think there are reasonable, good faith arguments for both voluntary and involuntary vaccination, that still account for these negative externalities--pretending they don't exist does nobody any favors, and we should disregard arguments that ignore them.
It's socially irresponsible and the impact to others is possible death. I wouldn't have a problem if these people weren't spreading death to others, but instead, they choose to force themselves on the rest of us because "freedom". The same people that don't understand vaccines are also likely to think masks don't work, so they take zero precautions when it comes to their safety and others.
The focus is just, these folks are robbing everyone else of their freedom and happiness.
Please see my other reply. Vaccinated people have a significantly reduced risk of death, so there is virtually no risk from being exposed to those without a vaccination.
>The same people that don't understand vaccines are also likely to think masks don't work
I don't see how this is relevant. It just seems like a strawman argument to dismiss people who might have legitimate reasons for not having the vaccine or otherwise just want to exercise their right not to have it.
Cool story, the facts however show unvaccinated people are filling up hospitals and children under 12 which account for approx 75 million people or approx 20%+ of the population in the US are now being impacted and they're not eligible for vaccination.
but they are overloading hospitals denying access to healthcare to other sick people since gov around world decided to prioritize this hyped disease
for instance in Czechia there were 17K excess deaths, 10K with main cause COVID, the other 7K thanks to restrictions and doctors treating people over phone to keep hospitals empty for obese/old
Because getting COVID becomes a problem for every person you come in contact with! Getting vaccinated protects you first, but also stops you from personally handing a disease to everyone you're in contact with. The people around you shouldn't be punished because you like Fox News.
No, getting vaccinated is not stops anyone from transmitting disease, it is obvious. Virus gets to breathing system of vaccinated people same as for unvaccinated, and replicates there for 4-6 days. Then they either have a vaccine breakthrough, or vaccine-boosted immune system kicks in and defeats the virus in next 2-3 days. All this time the vaccinated host is as dangerous for others as unvaccinated.
I hope you didn't know it or didn't think it through, otherwise mention of Fox News seems to me a blatant hypocrisy. Either way it was an unnecessary ad hominem attack.
> Ct-values decreased throughout the first 3 days of illness.
Days of illness are those 3 days "when immune system kicks in and defeats the virus", as I wrote. When host is ill, it is obvious and things like masks and social distancing are being used. But not for those 4-6 days of asymptomatic virus replication, when most transmissions are taking part.
I would love to see some statistical data on this topic. Anecdotal observation is that vaccinated people becoming more careless with masks and social distancing. See also Britain and Israel latest waves almost the same magnitude as January waves (but, of course, much less deadly).
Marjorie Taylor-Greene, a congresswoman from Georgia, is a huge rising conservative star in the style of Trump. She's downright anti-vaccine. "These vaccines are failing and do not reduce the spread of the virus and neither do masks".
Well, that statement of hers is blatantly stupid, I think we can agree on that.
But please don't lump people like me concerned about infringement on rights and bodily autonomy with people who deny facts and cannot understand what a mitigation measure is.
And more importantly, please don't make vaccination a political issue. Because you will be dividing everyone over this much more dramatically.
I would love for vaccination to not be a political issue, it's just the sad truth. The vaccination rate is deeply coordinated with the Democratic voting rate.
I think the focus on a small minority of people who don't want to take a vaccine is unhealthy.