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I bought the hardware, therefore I have the right to modify and repair. Natural right, full stop. That right ends are your nose, as the saying goes.


Consider whether your natural right argument might not stand in several other countries’ legal systems.

The era of United States companies using common sense United States principles for the whole world is coming to an end.


Okay, but currently it's the opposite: an US company is forcing the principles of these few legal systems for the whole world.


Nah, that's the beauty of it. Liberal principles make a much more robust political foundation that post-liberal principles. The US is known for the former despite current flirtations with the latter. However, liberal principles aren't tied to any one country. Fortunately for us!


The era of common sense in the United States came to an end.


Yeah then you have the choice to not buy the locked down hardware, you don't have a right to get open hardware FROM Google.

Of course there are no good options for open hardware, but that is a related but separate problem.


It's not a separate problem, Google are actively suppressing any possibility of open mobile hardware. They force HW manufacturers to keep their specs secret and make them choose between their ecosystem and any other, not both. There's a humongous conflict of interests and they're abusing their dominating position.


> They force HW manufacturers to keep their specs secret

Spoken like someone who has never ever worked with any hardware manufacturers. They do not need reasons for that. They all believe their mundane shit is the most secret-worthy shit ever. They have always done this. This predates google, and will outlive it.


Often it is because they don't know their own devices. We got a dev board from Qualcomm once and the documentation was totally bogus.


Regulating this is the way to not let general computing die to fuel google and apple profits.

People should have the right to run whatever software they like on the computing hardware they own. They should have the right to repair it.

The alternative is that everything ends up like smart-tvs where the options are "buy spyware ridden crap" or "don't have a tv"


Given how antitrust is not really working right now I would say this is debatable. Also monopolies in the past were forced to do various things to keep their status for longer.


> I bought the hardware, therefore I have the right to modify and repair. Natural right, full stop.

There is absolutely nothing "natural" about trading your pile of government promises for the right to call government men with guns and sticks if you are alienated from the option to physically control an object. Your natural right is to control what you can defend.

Rights are what we decide them to be. Or rather, what people in power decide them to be, i.e. people who hold and issue large amounts of government promises, and recruit and direct the most men with guns and sticks.


This is correct. Our natural rights go much further than unnatural prohibitions from the government.

Do what you please and get enough people to do it with you, and no one can stop you.


Oh, so you're good with everyone having the "natural right" to turn handguns into automatic weapons simply because they find themselves in possession of the correct atoms? How about adding a 3rd story on the top of your house without needing a permit or structural evaluation?

Note that adding "full stop" pointlessly to the end of sentences does not strengthen your argument.


The difference is that you can’t kill other people by installing an app.


sorry i thought we were talking about "natural rights" here, not rights conditional on whether the hardware does something you like or not

Guns aren't a natural right by any stretch. Defense is, but you're confusing the US bill of rights with natural rights of all humans.


Now that's just some stupid hyperbole.


I don't think it's illegal to do whatever you want with your phone. That doesn't mean google legally is required to make it easy or even possible. That being said I ethically they should allow it, and considering their near monopoly status they should be forced to keep things open. In fact there should be right to repair laws too.


The way to go from fervently hoping they make the ethical choice to actually protecting the users is to regulate it


I suppose you have the right to do whatever you want with it, including zapping it in the microwave or using it as a rectal probe. I am not sure that right extends are far as forcing companies to deliver a product to your specifications (open software, hardware, or otherwise)


You won't believe it, but many years ago the TVs for sale where required to come with their full schematics and they really did.


Right to repair requires it, thank goodness.


> Natural right, full stop.

You’re still missing the point the comment is making: In countries where governments are dead set on holding Google accountable for what users do on their phones, it doesn’t matter what you believe to be your natural right. The governments of these countries have made declarations about who is accountable and Google has no intention of leaving the door open for that accountability.

You can do whatever you want with the hardware you buy, but don’t confuse that with forcing another company to give you all of the tools to do anything you want easily.


That's deflection, there's Google blocking users from installing apps and there's OP insinuating that it might be because of governments coercion but there's no evidence to support this. Scammers pay Google to show ads to install apps, that's what the governments are holding Google responsible and it won't change with blocking installing apps.


Malicious app delivery goes beyond Google ads. In Singapore, most scam app installs are from social engineering, e.g. install new app to receive payment, install new app to buy something for cheap.

I’m amazed at how gullible some people are but that’s how it is.


That's not how it is, Google helps scammers and make a lot of money from it so they are responsible and should pay for it




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