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Outline is another (more mature) option: https://github.com/outline/outline


From when I last tried it, Outline lacks any of the database/datatable functionality of Notion, but Appflowy seems to already have much of this functionality built in (or at least something like it is visible in one of the screenshots shown). Furthermore, logins in both the self-hosted and cloud versions of Outline require logging in with third party providers, no local accounts, so it can never be fully self-hosted.


Just host auth provider right next to it... Awesome-selfhosted list has some cool solutions


Outline's rich-markdown-editor (https://github.com/outline/rich-markdown-editor) package is pretty nice. I have used it to make some custom MD editor/CMS experiment.


Are any of these options a git repo under the hood for the actual knowledge base?

It’s very valuable to be able to have the double workflow of a nice web interface alongside a plain text developer git workflow and leads to a very future proof knowledge base.


There are quite a few options for markdown + git knowledge bases, eg. Obsidian. You can easily find more alternatives discussed here on HN by starting a search on Obsidian.

If you’re looking for more of a CMS there’s quite a few options out there, most notably static site generators like docusaurus or vuepress. Plug: I’ve built a small tool to generate the markdown from notion, which allows me to use notion as my CMS editor while keeping the generated site fully under my control. https://github.com/meshcloud/notion-markdown-cms


Obsidian is great, but only free for personal uses.


You are looking for a tool like NetlifyCMS, which uses Git for its data store behind a nice web UI.


Other cofounder here. I just wanted to add that we still have some t-shirts and stickers left. So if you want some defunct project/startup swag, we'd love to send it to you! https://shop.flynn.io


Still wear my flynn shirt from 2015 when you kindly did a YC practice interview with us! Thanks for that BTW, y'all captured the intensity of it very well :)


You’re welcome! Hope you’re doing well!

(For those who don’t know, all the partners in a YC interview ask questions of everyone simultaneously— this is complicated at the best of times and totally nuts when you’re trying to answer technical questions about distributed systems and questions about how you’ll build the business, but it’s a great mental workout!)


Thanks, we are doing well - never did get into YC but it was a valuable process every time we applied - gave us time when we're not occupied with the day-to-day operating to think about our strategy.

We're back in NZ and focusing solely on the education market which really accelerated our growth. Not sure when we'll be able to travel to the US again but would be great to catch up when that happens!


Out of curiosity, why do that? To see how people function under pressure?


I think that’s part of it but it’s also the natural consequence of having several people on one side of the table trying to find out everything they can from the founders in a very short period of time and being genuinely interested if you and what you’re building.

Think speed dating plus lots of coffee.


Nice! Picked up a shirt and some stickers :) Sorry to see you guys go. Flynn was one of the first things that made me legitimately excited about the future of Docker. Thanks for all your great work.


Sorry to hear the bad news, John and Daniel. Thanks for all your great work, especially in promoting TUF. Hope you guys have found greener pastures now.


I posted a question for the co-founders, it's next to your comment. Would you mind taking a look, please?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26298288


Jason (the creator of Wireguard) wrote a great response to this: https://lists.zx2c4.com/pipermail/wireguard/2020-December/00...


Being quoted by Jason Donenfeld as “correctly identified the technical nature of the problem” was quite a nice Christmas gift.

Thank you Jason for your hard work and wonderful wares!!


This is correct. In fact, landscaping and groundskeeping workers (among many other categories) suffered more fatalities than police officers in 2018 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/cfoi/cftb0326.htm


Sorta meaningless unless you cross it against the actual count of people in the occupation (estimates in this list https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/emp-by-detailed-occupation.ht...)

I don't really want to get into the actual meat of the argument, but please use per-capita death stats so the numbers are actually comparable.


Sure, I combined the two tables in the spreadsheet linked below, and there are many occupations that are more dangerous than police officer if we look at fatalities by per-capita occupation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dXtv2wnutujfXWUHB9Bm...


This sounds like one arguing that playing russian roulette isn't dangerous, because one can name more dangerous activities. The fact that deep sea fishing is ultra dangerous doesn't mean that being a cop isn't dangerous.


"It's a dangerous job" is given as a reason for why so much policy brutality occurs. Pointing out how dangerous it is relative to other professions is absolutely germane.


That's exactly my point, and no it isn't. Policing isn't less dangerous because deep sea fishing is really dangerous. If someone said "It's the most dangerous job", then it would be germane.

Here's the same logic applied elsewhere:

It's not dangerous to be a black man in America. What's really dangerous is to be a El Salvadoran living in El Salvador(the country with the highest murder rate in the world).


It's not the same logic though. A black man in America didn't choose to be a black man, and has no way to change it. Ditto for an El Salvadoran - most can't legally emigrate.

Police officers are volunteers, not conscripts. They're free at any time to choose a less dangerous profession if they so wish.

Ultimately it doesn't matter if policing was more dangerous than working in an asbestos-uranium mine on a fault line. There's no excuse for law enforcement to be breaking laws without consequence. People who can't tolerate the risks should go do something else.



"The Internet Society will receive this as a fund that it will invest as an endowment... This funding is sufficient to provide the Internet Society with broadly equivalent annual earnings we currently receive from PIR. And through responsible, well managed investment, we believe this fund will provide a comparable level of funding to the Internet Society in perpetuity."

Translation: "We sold the Internet to vultures (super-nice vultures! you won't believe how nice they are!) so that we could have... basically the same cash flow that we already had. But now we're going to deal with bankers instead of Afilias."


"Our mission is to support and promote the development of the Internet around the world — an Internet that is open, globally connected, secure, and trustworthy."

Prediction: they will achieve nothing, at all, whatsoever.

Everyone who voted for this should be ashamed of themselves.


I wonder how good their investment strategy is that 1.1B will earn them $120M/year in income, that's nearly 11% return...


No, it sounds like they're aiming for $50M/year.


Which then, if so, doesn't really add up... how is $50M "broadly equivalent" to $120M??


The .org TLD isn't "The Internet."


Hey, give it time. Maybe next they'll sell the IETF to Cisco for another billion.


>Our plan is to live within the spirit of historic practice when it comes to pricing, which means, potentially, annual price increases of up to 10 percent on average – which today would equate to approximately $1 per year.

This is very weasel worded way to say that price would double every 7.27 years... (and this is only "Our plan")


10% is at least 3x annual inflation rate. That's too much imho.

Monopolies should be regulated - domain name administration is a natural monopoly.


I would go further, they shouldn't be "regulated", this is a public service that should be run in the interests of society as a whole and not for the benefit of a private actor. We should have a tax funding mechanism, and run it either as a nationalized utility or through an international commission.


How so? There are a great many TLDs in the market.


There's only 1 .org TLD - and it's meaning cannot be replicated with another TLD.

It's the same as a TV series - there are great many TV series , but only 1 Game of Thrones on HBO, and it's not substitutable. Therefore, HBO has a monopoly on Game of Thrones.


That's not at all how monopolies work, and nobody is going to break up HBO for having exclusive control of Game of Thrones.

> and it's meaning cannot be replicated with another TLD.

anything-org.us, anything-org.xyz, anything-org.com, or even just disregard bothering with .org entirely since it literally has no meaning; there's no enforcement on the soft policy that it represent non-profits. For example, slashdot.org is owned by BizX.

Old-guard nerds have nostalgic attachment to the .org TLD's history; that's it. It's hardly a case that it's a monopoly.


What if you already have a .org domain that you actually use?

How would you like it if your phone company started charging you extra to keep your phone number, and told you, there's plenty of other phone numbers you can have, we won't charge extra for those


You mean "How did I like it when my email provider increased their rates?" I switched email providers and updated my email address with my relevant contacts.

It was annoying, but nobody claims seriously that email providers are a monopoly.


Well, if this is a disagreement over the word "monopoly" I'll just cite wikipedia:

Patents, copyrights, and trademarks are sometimes used as examples of government-granted monopolies.

Third paragraph from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly

So, yes, HBO does have a monopoly on Game of Thrones, and my email provider does have a monopoly on my email address.

This is, for example, why they explicitly passed a phone number portability law, because phone companies were abusing their monopoly power over individual phone numbers, to keep people from switching to different providers.


Do you anticipate passage of an email or domain name monopoly law? Could such a thing be passed (i.e. what government would enforce it)?


No? I'm not sure what the relevance of that is though?

I mean, it would certainly be right for the government to limit the increase in the cost of .org registrations to inflation, or better to cap the profit margin, since costs are likely to decrease, but just because it's right, doesn't mean it'll happen. .org domains are an artificial scarcity that wasn't even created by a corporation. At least the telephone was invented privately, so you could argue phone numbers are fair game, but with domain names even that argument doesn't hold. There's no reason a private company should be extracting economic-rent from it.


Only if one thinks .org has value over .anything-else. If one isn't hung up on having a .org at the end of their URL, there is a world of alternatives.


.org does have value over .anything-else because .org domains already exist.

The value is, for starters: branding, people remember sites.

The value is also vendor-lock in. What you called "annoying" above. The value is not having to do that annoying thing, that is value, and it's what the registrar can now use to extract money from existing .org domains.

The value is also, that if you let your .org domain lapse, since you don't want to pay for it, now someone else can take it and pretend to be you.


10% per year!

That 3 to 4 times recent historic and near future projection for inflation rates.




Thanks, we've moved the comments there.


It's worth noting that the new VS Code Remote Development extensions are not open source, which means that it is impossible for the community to fix bugs, and add new platforms/environments/features, or see the code that's running in their environment without reverse engineering.

https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/faq#_why-arent-the...


Thanks for pointing that out.

(Also odd formulation of the question: "Why aren't the open soure? - We made the decision to keep them closed source." The actual answer is to the next question: "we may provide premium developer services.")


After embracing open source, they appear to now be extending it...


After embracing open source, they appear to now be extending it...

This is an add-on to Microsoft’s open source editor... Is your concern that Microsoft has embraced VS Code, is now extending it, and has the sinister end goal of exterminating VS Code?


What happens is they extinguish the competing alternative open source products, by taking mindshare and users from them.

Then once the alternatives are no longer so viable, they use their dominant market share to their advantage and the detriment of users.

It's what google has done with Android, Chrome, Gmail.


What happens is they extinguish the competing alternative open source products, by taking mindshare and users from them.

Oh my.

That’s called “competition”.

You are mis-construing EEE.


That's the exact thing I thought with this. How are they that without a clue as to the world right now when they do stuff like this?


I'm guessing they concerned about just enabling Amazon cloud. Amazon has a way of taking stuff and not returning much.


Wonder what they'll think of next


Specially since there are already open-source alternatives:

https://github.com/cdr/code-server


https://www.theia-ide.org/ is vendor-neutral open source governed by an open source foundation (the Eclipe Foundation).


Theia is made by TypeFox and the Eclipse Foundation is developing the Orion IDE: https://wiki.eclipse.org/Orion


It's a bit more complicated, actually:

Theia is being developed by TypeFox, Ericsson, RedHat, ARM and more. Orion is being developed by IBM and more.

Both Theia and Orion are projects under the umbrella of the Eclipse Foundation: https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ecd.theia https://projects.eclipse.org/projects/ecd.orion

The Eclipse Foundation (in the very most cases) does not develop software. They also usually do not pay developers. Their role it to arrange that companies and contributors play fair and nice when creating and using open source software.


At Pycon, I spoke with a couple of people at Microsoft who insisted that it would be eventually. They were not, however, on the VS Code team, and speaking unofficially.

At the booth, the VS Code people said that the reason it was closed was because it fell into the "services" umbrella, which has a lot of closed-source components. They did not have a comment on if it was going to be opened.


>who insisted that it would be eventually

Source Open Dumped, not Open Sourced. Open source product is a journey, not only just a destination.


(android)


Also a license does not look permissive: https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/remote/faq#_can-i-repacka...

I don't see how someone else can leverage VS Code remote extensions to build something similar to VS Futures.


Yes, when you use a US carrier roaming in China you have a US IP:

>This censorship occurs despite the fact that when in China a cell phone using a foreign SIM is not subject to the firewall restrictions (all traffic is tunneled back to your provider first), so Google, Twitter, Facebook, et al all work fine on a non-mainland China SIM even though you’re connected via China Mobile or China Unicom’s network.


Interesting. That seems like it'd be horrible for latency but I guess it works well enough that I haven't heard complaints about it.


It is horrible for latency to use a US carrier roaming in China but without an immediate frame of reference people probably don’t notice. Those roaming with us sims are probably mostly accessing us websites so the latency isn’t going to be much different than accessing the site from local Wi-Fi assuming it’s not blocked. Where it really shows is trying to access Chinese sites in China roaming with a us sim.

If you want low latency roaming in China, state owned China Mobile will sell you a solution for that:

  https://www.larrysalibra.com/hop-over-the-great-firewall-with-government-help/


Those roaming with us sims

For a moment, I thought you were claiming to be one of a group of Sims.


Just because you have a US IP address, doesn't mean traffic actually gets routed through it.

My limited understanding (from one uni course) is mobile devices get a secondary identifier that the networks use for the actual routing process. While a device may officially identify as having a US IP address, the cell carriers communicate a secondary, current IP address/identifier local to the device's current position.

It's much like how DNS works. You don't route all traffic through a DNS server. You send it a readable name, then communicated directly with the IP address that's returned.


This is how your mobile data traffic is served by your operator:

In 3G/LTE network there are terms called Gn interface, Gi Interface, Gp interface and many others. Gn is to manage your mobility. From Gi you will get local ip address and internet access. From Gp you will be routed to you own cellular operator Gp interface.

When you are on your original cellular operator network, you will be served by Gn and Gi interface for your internet access. When you are roaming, you will be served by Gn and Gp interface of local cellular operator that will forward to your original cellular operator’s Gp. After that it will routed to Gi interface of your original cellular operator.

edited: Gn function


It is pretty horrible for latency. Despite T-Mobile's free international roaming (albeit at reduced speeds), I'll usually get a local SIM card if I'm in the country more than a week because the latency can make it unusable sometimes.

IIRC the carriers do this for billing/metering reasons; otherwise they wouldn't have any idea how much data you're using while roaming, and would have to blindly trust whatever the partner carrier tells them.


This allows both the home and "visiting" operator to charge money. Also there's a (probably expensive) dedicated global network for these operator connections.

What I'd like to see is way for the visiting operator to charge little and route my packets directly to internet. I remember reading that this mode is also supported by the specs


Assuming you’re using it to access websites or services with PoPs in US/EU then tunneling traffic via US/EU VPN would add negligible latency, actually would probably improve your latency overall.


I vouched it after it got flagged dead which resurrected, but it hasn't returned to the front page.


It ended up flagkilled again, so we've just turned off the flags to give it a shot.


Just out of curiosity, did you "collapse" this comment thread since it's just a meta discussion, or is it somehow getting affected by user voting while still remaining at +1?


The former!


Makes sense, thanks!


Here's what they are actually collecting: https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator/blob/master/src/Calc...


That's some pretty boring information overall.

One which might be cause for concern is LogInvalidInputPasted() specifically because pastedExpression is included in the Telemetry Event.

I also have questions on LogConversionResult(). Why is that recording NetworkAccessBehavior or the raw conversion values? Wouldn't knowing the FromUnit/ToUnit be enough to know how much something is being used?


Conversion between currencies requires access to the API that provides conversion rates.


I presume that LogConversionResult() logs the result of a currency conversion that has already accessed Micrisoft's API. So why does Microsoft need to know the results of my calculations? The function in question isn't GetCurrencyRate().


> might be cause for concern

Only "might"? If you just accidentally paste your password to the calculator...


Why have all the single-use constant strings instead of using the corresponding literals in-place? It’s additional lines of code and doesn't help readability/maintainability (there's already one unused const - EVENT_NAME_HIDE_IF_SHOWN). Additionally, the code mixes string literals with constants:

    fields.AddString(L"AddSubtractMode", isAddMode ? L"Add" : L"Subtract");
    LogTelemetryEvent(EVENT_NAME_DATE_ADD_SUBTRACT_USED, fields);
But then it doesn't use constants where it might make sense, when a string is used more than once. e.g. the literal string "WindowId" is used a dozen times.

Separately, I question whether anyone looking at the telemetry on the backend. In my experience, developers add this stuff because they think it will be useful, then it never or rarely gets looked at. A telemetry event here, a telemetry event there, pretty soon you're talking real bandwidth.


So nothing really nefarious then.


Well it must include your IP address too, and they know the time and date is was received. And then it gets bundled with the rest of the data they collected.

I don't even want them knowing when I'm using my computer.

“What gets measured gets managed.”


Errant pasted data sounds like a bad thing to log.


Because it is a simple calculator. Now think about what they might be collecting from the rest of the system.

All the concerning privacy issues with Facebook or any other company should be seen rigorously by its users. Telemetry at OS Level is one of the worst offending practices IMO.


You don't have to imagine, you can view the data for yourself: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy/diagnostic-...


If we're expected to trust the party spying on us to reveal exactly the extent to which they spy on us via their proprietary, closed-source spying data viewer tool, then we deserve exactly whatever the fuck it is we end up getting.


If they cheated on the documentation matching the binary to try and sneak in more telemetry, the backlash would be phenomenal. I don't know if Twitter could handle that kind of load =]

It's always good to trust but verify, although here the the safeguard is pretty strong.


It doesn't always have to be explicitly intentional as you described, but the simple fact is that they are incentivized to gather this data and they will not, in fact, suffer major repercussions commensurate with the amount of data that is collected/gathered. Look at all of the penalties that have been levied at all the other data breaches and how negatively affected those business were. [1]

[1] Very little to not at all.


"MAIL_FOLDER_LIST_EXPANDED", "REFRESH_INBOX_BUTTON_USED", ... :P


‘’’In a brightly lit but still somehow nefarious meeting room two devs discuss their latest findings: Dev1: “These users searching for ‘transfer bank savings’ also have a 15% chance of pasting these long invalid numbers into the calculator. Look at all of them.” Dev2: “Odd those look like bank accounts numbers...” Dev3: “I think we may have an early retirement opportunity...” ‘’’


You raise valid issue, but that issue has nothing to do with the telemetry itself, but with the brokeness of US banking system. Essentially everywhere else the bank account number is simply an public address that you can use to send money there and nothing else.


So microsoft should just ignore all the lessons that we've learned over and over about being data driven?


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