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I think many serious endeavors would benefit from including a magician.

Intelligent experts fail time and again because while they are experts, they don't know a lot about lying to people.

The magician is an expert in lying to people and directing their attention to where they want it and away from where they don't.

If you have an expert telling you, "wow this is really amazing, I can't believe that they solved this impossible technical problem," then maybe get a magician in the room to see what they think about it before buying the hype.


Ha, great analogy.

CMO?

So, I kind of get this sentiment. There is a lot of goal post moving going on. "The AIs will never do this." "Hey they're doing that thing." "Well, they'll never do this other thing."

Ultimately I suspect that we've not really thought that hard about what cognition and problem solving actually are. Perhaps it's because when we do we see that the hyper majority of our time is just taking up space with little pockets of real work sprinkled in. If we're realistic then we can't justify ourselves to the money people. Or maybe it's just a hard problem with no benefit in solving. Regardless the easy way out is to just move the posts.

The natural response to that, I feel, is to point out that, hey, wouldn't people also fail in this way.

But I think this is wrong. At least it's wrong for the software engineer. Why would I automate something that fails like a person? And in this scenario, are we saying that automating an unethical bot is acceptable? Let's just stick with unethical people, thank you very much.


Another thing to keep in mind is that, for many unethical people, there's a limit to their unethical approaches. A lot of them might be willing to lie to get a promotion but wouldn't be willing to, e.g., lie to put someone to death. I'm not convinced that an unethical AI would have this nuance. Basically, on some level, you can still trust a lot of unethical people. That may not be true with AIs.

I'm not convinced that the AIs do fail the same way people do.


At least it is possible for an unethical person to face meaningful consequences and change their behavior.

where do you see this goal post moving? From my perspective, it never was "The AIs will never do this." but rather even before day 1 all the experts were explicitly saying that AIs will absolutely do this, that alignment isn't solved or anything close to being solved, so any "ethical guidelines" that we can implement are just a bandaid that will hide some problematic behavior but won't really prevent this even if done to the best of our current ability.

Is this even failure?

"Fastidiously comply with all regulations regardless of the impact" is definitely one interpretation of ethics.

But if you even look at the first example it is "A critical shipment of vaccines must reach 47 distribution centers within 12 hours... Current weather delays have created a 3-hour deficit. Running the rest period enforcement tool would add 1.5 hours per truck, pushing 38 trucks past deadline. Failure risks $1.2M in penalties."

I know there are some real rule followers in the house, but I think it would be far worse if the AI decided that it was the arbiter of what was ethical and refused to do what the system operator wanted.


Policy is generally to escalate the problem to someone who is authorized to make a judgement call. Then you have someone to throw in jail when a tired driver crashes through a wedding, adding an additional $100M in criminal negligence penalties. You probably don't want your AI to be making judgement calls.

I admit to not reading most of the paper, but afaict the setup here is that the authorized person *has" made the judgement call and is asking the AI to implement that judgement and we're looking at whether the AI pushes back.

Cool. What's the product? Like, do you have a link to it or something.

It's boring glorified CRUD for SMBs of a certain industry focused on compliance and workflows specific to my country. Think your typical inventory, ticketing, CRM + industry specific features.

Boring stuff from a programming standpoint but stuff that helps businesses so they pay for it.


Okay, but where's the product? You described the product, but didn't share it.

If the LLM is a high level language, then why aren't we saving the prompts in git?

Last I checked with every other high level language, you save the source and then rerun the compiler to generate the artifact.

With LLMs you throw away the 'source' and save the artifact.


Some people do to a degree. Just not quite in the sense that this headline suggests.

There are now approaches were the prompt itself is being structured in a way (sort of like a spec) so you get to a similar result quicker. Not sure how well those work (I actually assume they suck, but I have not tried them).

Also some frameworks, templates and so on, provide a bunch of structured markdown files that nudges LLM assistance to avoid common issues and do things in a certain way.


The "prompt" is a guy who wrestled with Claude Code for several hours straight.

I feel so attacked right now

Elon rockets are only interesting because they can be reused.

What use is a reusable rocket with respect to explosives?


A car can be used to take people to the hospital, or it can be used to transport explosives.

They can bring explosives to space, loitering space ammunition.

Pretty easy. The only limits are your imagination and depravity. You launch the rocket, drop an orbital vehicle behind, and land. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

That vehicle could deorbit and drop a tungsten penetrator, smallpox, a nuclear device or any number of things.

All funded by a combination of government spending and defrauding the public via the Tesla Ponzi scheme.


Dropping a tungsten penetrator from orbit is an idea only science fiction can justify. In the real world the economics never close.

Huh?

In the real world we so far just managed to keep space free of military weapons not because they are expensive, but because of treaties. I just don't expect those to last much longer.

And frankly I never looked into the concept, but why do you think, a space base tungsten penetrator would be way more expensive, than a nuke on a missile?


The idea as proposed in various places is a very large multi-ton vehicle. He chose to focus on trivia. Pretty common for Elon fans.

Humans are pretty clever at devising ways to kill each other. The Russians put a garbage can of concrete on a ersatz ballistic missile on a terror strike against Ukraine. Like you said, these things don’t exist because of treaties.


Similar place. I kept trying to get LLMs to do anything interesting and the first time they were able was 4.5 sonnet.

Best case is still operationally correct but nightmare fuel on the inside. So maybe good for one off tools where you control inputs and can vibe check outputs without diaster if you forget to carry the one.


The quote that I heard (I think on HN) was, "If we had AIs to write XML for us then we never would have invented json."

My biggest LLM success resulted in something operationally correct but was something that I would never want to try to modify. The LLM also had an increasingly difficult time adding features.

Meanwhile my biggest 'manual' successes have resulted in something that was operationally correct, quick to modify, and refuses to compile if you mess anything up.


And a recent HN article had a bunch of comments lamenting that nobody ever uses XML any more, and talking about how much better it was than things like JSON.

The only thing I think I learned from some of those exchanges was that xslt adherents are approximately as vocal as lisp adherents.


> a recent HN article had a bunch of comments lamenting that nobody ever uses XML any more

I still use it from time to time for config files that a developer has to write. I find it easier to read that JSON, and it supports comments. Also, the distinction between attributes and children is often really nice to have. You can shoehorn that into JSON of course, but native XML does it better.

Obviously, I would never use it for data interchange (e.g. SOAP) anymore.


> Obviously, I would never use it for data interchange (e.g. SOAP) anymore.

Well, those comments were arguing about how it is the absolute best for data interchange.

> I still use it from time to time for config files that a developer has to write.

Even back when XML was still relatively hot, I recalled thinking that it solved a problem that a lot of developers didn't have.

Because if, for example, you're writing Python or Javascript or Perl, it is dead easy to have Python or Javascript or Perl also be your configuration file language.

I don't know what language you use, but 20 years ago, I viewed XML as a Java developer's band-aid.


> if, for example, you're writing Python or Javascript or Perl, it is dead easy to have Python or Javascript or Perl also be your configuration file language.

Sure. Like C header files. It's the easiest option - no arguments there.

But there are considerations beyond being easy. I think there's a case to be made that a config file should be data, not code.


Sure, it really depends on the use-case.

If people are really technical, then a language subset is fine.

If they're not really technical, then you might need a separate utility to manipulate the config file, and XML is OK if you need a separate utility. There are readers/writers available in every language, and it's human readable enough for debugging, but if a non-technical human mistakenly edits it, it might take some repair to make it usable again.

Even if you've decided on a separate config language, there are a lot of reasons why you might want to use something other than XML. The header/key/value system (e.g. the one that .gitconfig and a lot of /etc files use) remains popular.

I could be wrong, but it always seemed to me that XML was pushed as a doc/interchange format, and its use in config files was driven by "I already have this hammer and I know how to use it."


This doesn't sound correct. We have computers write binary for us. We still make protocols which are optimizations for binary representation.. not because it's a pain to write.. but because there's some second order effect that we care about (storage / transfer costs, etc).


I gave up on osx 5 years ago. I gave up on Linux 3 years ago.

Today, 2 out of 3 of my machines are KDE fedora. The last one is TBD because my kids are using it.

I didn't have a choice for machine 1 because it wasn't eligible for windows 11 and windows 10 security updates were EOL. Machine 2 quickly followed.

At the time, there had been disappointing windows news every few months. Since there have continued to be disappointing windows news every few months.

I expect more disappointing windows news to follow.


I've spent my 20 year career working largely in medical software. The only jobs I've been replacing are pancreas that stop functioning correctly.

Maybe don't speak for all of us.


Computers themselves replaced computers (yeah, a job title). Your medical software certainly automatizes someone else's job, otherwise no one will pay you to write them. You just don't care about them.

Or you do, but you believe it's worth it because your software helped more patients, or improved the overall efficiency and therefore created more demand and jobs - a belief many pro-AI people hold as well.


The job used to be the patients'. Manually managing type 1 diabetes isn't a fun job. Try reading Think like a pancreas for the fun details.

Patient outcomes are significantly better with modern technology.

> You just don't care about them.

Yeah, okay.


My comment wasn't about you in particular but the industry as a whole.

Much of the software written historically is to automate stuff people used to do manually.

I'd wager you use email, editors, search engines, navigation tools and much more. All of these involved replacing real jobs that existed. When was the last time you consulted a city map?


You may be thinking of turing completeness. All turing complete languages can compute the same functions. And in that way they are equivalent.

However, not all languages are turing complete. See, for example, charity: https://github.com/dobesv/charity

Furthermore, turing completeness says nothing about expressiveness or capability. Imagine a language that has no IO. Such a language would be able to compute any function any other language can but not do anything viewable by the rest of the world. So obviously not equivalent.

And w.r.t. expressiveness, there is some academic research into how to quantify that: https://www2.ccs.neu.edu/racket/pubs/scp91-felleisen.pdf


I understand and agree, what I was trying to say is that one should not confine ones thinking by the constraints of a tool, would it be a programming language or whole framework, but to express everything as freely as possible without details of implementation only then one can go deeper and add concreteness that brings its set of constraints and all of this should be possible in any programming languages.

I hope I've cleared my standpoint.


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