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No... It falls under disparate impact.


Is "no more than 10 years experience" more illegal than "at least 5 years experience"?


At least 5 years experience is a requirement that is job related. You need 5 years of experience at X do lead others doing X.

No more than 10 years experience seems very much not job related. How does having too much experience hurt a person's ability to do a job?


It's simple. People who have more experience generally demand higher salaries. The company in question is probably seeking someone who's fairly experienced but doesn't have the budget to afford a superstar.


So then you put an "up to" salary number in the ad.


Yes, it's only illegal to discriminate against people age 40 or older.


Nah... Lightweight processes were discussed as alternatives to waterfall way back in the 90s during my software engineering courses. "Rapid application development" and RAtional unified process were the "hot" lightweight methodologies when I started work in 1996. Scrum has been with us since 1995.


I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but when the Agile Manifesto was signed, a giant red button was pressed that reset the entire industry's memory.

All that existed before 2001 was waterfall. Nothing else. Just waterfall. Only waterfall. You are mistaken in thinking that iterative delivery, spiral models, joint application development, daily build-n-smoke, test harnesses or any such practice or technology existed previously.

Then in 2001, Agile sprung fully-formed from the brow of Zeus and saved us. Agile has no predecessors whatsoever and completely invalides decades of careful observation, discussion and investigation by generations of software developers and managers.

All books and articles published before 2001 can be safely ignored, and nothing can be learned therefrom.


Agree, no debate about when you might have managed agile teams... could be you're Ken Schwaber (yeah, had to look up his name), but it then begs the 2nd question I raised... why would you want to do a startup? If you have 12+ years of experience with what is now a very hot process why, why?, WHY? would you want to work at a startup?

A VP role doesn't sound like a C role. It doesn't sound like a really big equity play. You're not going to be a founder w/ a big payout (probably). So why do it?

I'm repeating myself. It really doesn't matter at all... someone will apply or they will not and the company will hire the right person or they will not... you and I will go along with our lives just fine.


I think you're overestimating how hot of a skill that actually is... But even if you could make "boatloads" of cash consulting, not everyone desires the road warrior lifestyle that goes along with consulting.


Not only is it blatantly ageist... It's stupid.

They want someone that has been building engineering organizations for 5-12 years, after having been an individual contributor.

Then, they want you to drop back into an individual contributor role. At least initially. Wink wink nudge nudge.


It's not ageist. It doesn't say People who are 50 need not apply. From reading this job posting, someone who is 80, worked as a mechanic, a waiter, a clerk, and then picked up some newfangled technology might qualify.

Besides the whole Agile not being codified for more than 12 years thing, if you've been out of the loop managing for 12 years, they say they don't want you. Part of the process apparently involves showing that your technical skills are still there.


As i posted above... Lightweight processes were discussed as alternatives to waterfall way back in the 90s during my software engineering courses. "Rapid application development" and RAtional unified process were the "hot" lightweight methodologies when I started work in 1996. Scrum has been with us since 1995.

And yes, it's blatantly ageist... It falls under the disparate impact provision:

"In addition to prohibiting intentional discrimination against older workers (known as “disparate treatment”), the ADEA prohibits practices that, although facially neutral with regard to age, have the effect of harming older workers more than younger workers (known as “disparate impact”), unless the employer can show that the practice is based on an RFOA."



My "career" aspiration in school was to be a bearded, suspenders wearing unix admin/hacker.

I don't ever want to get non-technical. I've been a project manager, and found the work excruciatingly boring.

I've been a freelancer, and found the work mind numbingly boring.

I much prefer working for a company where I can be neck deep in designing and building challenging products.


I totally agree.

If I'm hiring someone for my team, I need to see skill. Or smarts.

If we're hiring an outside consultant, it's always for technical knowledge that we don't have. Again we need to see skill.

If we need to hire another team lead, it's usually because we have no one to promote from within (either due to experience or lack of volunteers), and again we need to see skill.

I don't hire for marketing, but I'd hope that they also want to see results and could care less if you've programmed before. Indeed it's likely irrelevant.


So true. My Facebook feed will contain no less than a dozen 2nd amendment related posts at any given point in time, but nary a peep about the 4th.

If you want to see action on this front, someone needs to educate the NRA that metadata provides the government much more information than any gun registration database ever could.


Oh yeah, definitely. I went deep into interviews with a big oil company, and when it came time to sit down with the Sr. managers, they did not like my philosophy on overtime at all (I have a family I like to see on the weekdays... Overtime is sometimes necessary, but if it's SOP then there's a problem).


I sympathize, brother.

My most irksome comments were "So... Giving mom the day off?" whenever someone would see me with my kids.

The most egregious thing to happen, was being kicked off of the local meetup for playdates... I assume I was approved to join the group because my first name is gender neutral.

Sometime between posting my profile pic (which included my kids) and attending my first meetup, I was removed from the group.


I should amend my previous post to note that Hacker News has provided a bit of support. There are a surprising number of stay-at-home dads here, and being able to converse with people who both understand my situation and have some technical chops is really refreshing.


I tend to avoid places that equate career advancement with becoming a manager.


I'm Sooooo glad I don't work in a "professional" environment. I sometimes think professional is slang for pretentious.


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