Theoretical explanation for observed reactions: Lemma 1: alien topic is like religion, not a great amount of data, but very high stakes. Lemma 2: There's a lot of intellectual "soccer mums" on HN eager to find an outlet for their unrealized (?) intellectual prowess. Corollary: Alien topic seems like fair game, because low risk associated to bring wrong, and hard to disprove with facts or experts. Theory: this topic manifold provides attractive attachment site for brains looking to engage in intellectual proving games and leads to lots of low signal comments intended to make others wrong to achieve a sense of being right. It will take HN some time to adopt the correct posture to discuss leading edge questions in areas with lots of ambiguity. QED.
But this theory shouldn't be controversial at all: A random sample taken from any distribution is more than likely to be representative of that distribution. It's a basic idea but I like how he's illustrated it here with lots of examples and connected it to the alien notion. Meaning it leads to a good insight. Namely why most described encounters of aliens detail beings that are a lot like ourselves. The so-called five star pattern: a head, two arms, two legs. And hands with fingers.
In fact the ideas advanced in this essay are so fundamental they're like informational entropy or enthalpy/thermodynamics in that they are basic but insightful and sometimes counterintuitive principles that advanced reasoners can use to figure about the world. I wish more people knew of them.
I'm so blown away by this essay. in a limit sense I think this type of reasoning represents the best that you can possibly do starting from a position of ignorance. And as essay says that position is the safest one to start at. Sure you can apply a bunch of priors and constraints to limit the variations of different populations to what you think is right but really in this topic those things are just distortions. so the conclusions arrived at in this paper I think are in the limit sense the best that you can possibly do from the intellectually honest position of almost totally ignorance about this.
it's telling that so many people want to instinctively reject this and instead blindly impose their own priors while being blissfully unaware that's exactly what they're doing, resisting the general purpose conclusions of this essay and trying to pass off their own beliefs as truth.
> Namely why most described encounters of aliens detail beings that are a lot like ourselves. The so-called five star pattern: a head, two arms, two legs. And hands with fingers.
The reason why ALL described alien encounters have happened has nothing to do with the statistics of possible alien life in the universe, it has everything to do with the human psyche - as they are all either delusions, lying, false memories etc.
Hahaha. you're so deluded that you've applied your own priors and beliefs there that everybody who has this experience must be lying. You've recklessly imposed your prior that all of this witness data has to be false because you simply personally disagree with it. But you don't think that's crazy at all then you do that. You are right now blind to that distortion. But you need to wake up to how crazy that is. this paper if you read it with an open mind is exactly the type of reasoning that you need to plug yourself into
This paper lends absolutely no credence to the various crackpots and deluded people who claim they have met aliens.
And the reasons why that is essentially impossible all stem very clearly from much more solid physical considerations, that have to do with the extreme amounts of energy necessary for interstellar travel at anything approaching a reasonable time frame (i.e. less then the age of most stars).
Because you don't know if they're "Crackpots and deluded people"...that's the claim without credence. So unfair to all those witnesses. You can't judge them, you don't have any idea. It's your personal opinion that you parade as truth, but pretend others are wrong. But not just wrong, crazy.
But that claim, yours, is crazy. Can you prove all those people wrong? Can you prove they haven't? Nooope.
"is essentially impossible all stem" -- so because you have a belief that you understand everything that's possible (An arrogant humancentric "if we haven't figured it out" it can't be done), you're going to pretend everyone that has a personal experience that contravenes your prejudgment is crazy. That's the crazy thing dudettee ... you don't see that tho right.
It's also a narrow minded viewing. You could say they worked out how to jump from far away to get here, in ways we don't understand. Possible. You could also take the more-feasible-to-you view that they are already in the solar system and can come take a look at us when they want. Also possible. But acknowledging such possibilities would rob you of the posture of saying anyone who has an experience you don't want to even try explain is crackpot and delude. You sound like the lazy and deluded crackpot nutcase for saying that anyone who has something you can't explain is crazy. I suppose pretending this must have high payoff for you. You can't just impose your priors on others and think they're true. I guess you don't yet see that.
There are thousands of years worth of people claiming personal experiences with various gods, aliens, animal spirits and so on. None of these have ever led to any kind of verifiable results, so I think it's about time we entirely stop listening to such stories, whatever the reason they are being told.
Your position on the other hand could be used as well to believe in God (YHWH), Lord Vishnu, kami, aliens or anything else that someone has ever claimed to see.
You are also treating pretty well understood physical limits (the speed of light, E=(mv^2)/2 etc.) as mere technological problems that someone could "figure out". And all this to justify listening to a few disparate people who can offer no more proof than their own story telling.
As a side note, please refrain from calling people you are directly talking to "lazy and deluded crackpot nutcases", especially for relatively simple logical inferences.
Hahahaaha. This so hilarious. I just saw your comment now. You are so blind to what you're doing. You really think you're going to get away with your abusive language and expect silence in return? Who's been enabling you? I used that language because it's the commensurate response to you using that language to describe people you disagree with or don't believe, and the right response to your claim that believers are wrong and you know better. So you can't take it, simiones? Don't dish it out. Please refrain from having a double standard.
Define "verifiable results"? There's plenty of stories of corroboration between people saying they had some experience that can't be explained and that you want to pretend to yourself has to be untrue, and something more verifiable happening. Like they got cured, or they went missing, or they got an implant, or a mark was left on their body, or the ground was irradiated, and so on.
Many of these have led to such "verifiable" results, it's only that you're too resistant to see that. Have you proved all these stories to be false? Have you debunked everyone's experiences, stories and beliefs in things you can't explain? No. you. have. not. So I think it's time you entirely stop pretending that because you don't want to see it, it isn't happening. It's very very disrespectful to witnesses of this.
Do we have any "verifiable" data on drug abuse? Sexual assault? Parental abuse of children? Much of that data is self-reported. But it's "hard data" from the point of view of public health / legal system. It's only because you're unwilling to concede that there's anything outside your understanding, so you'd rather pretend these people are lying, crackpot, deluded, than having experienced something that you, in your arrogance, don't understand and therefore refuse to accept is real.
You're trapped by your own biases and priors, ignoring evidence and seeking confirmation bias. Ok, fine, you do that. But please don't ever - EVER - call people crackpot nutcases deluded liars and think you can get away with having people be silent in the face of that, and not calling you the same.
Pretty well understood physical limits - who says they're limits? You? What are you, God? You don't know for sure. Stop pretending if humans can't understand it it can't be done. How arrogant and stupid that is! But you think you can persist in this, call people you disagree with "crackpot deluded liars" and then you want everyone to silently accept your abusive language and not push back, as you complain when the very same language is used against you. Hahahaha! This totally shows not only your intellectual bias, but your personal bias and arrogance. Please reform yourself.
First of all, you are the one claiming knowledge that more or less contradicts some of our most fundamental physical understanding based on hearsay. If you don't understand how fundamental the speed of causality limit (c) or the mass/energy equivalence are to all of the rest of modern physics (and technology), how well proven they are, to what extraordinary precisions, how many other observations would make no sense without them, then there really is no point in continuing our discussion. Until you can account for the hundreds of thousands of reproducible experiments showing how speeds compose and time dilates without a fundamental limit to speed, saying that someone thinks they saw some bizarre phenomenon is very weak evidence.
Comparing "evidence" of aliens (which, I keep stressing, could as likely be angels or demons or devas) to evidence of drug abuse, parental abuse, rape etc is disgusting. Those in the later case are known, well understood phenomena, where we have clear, obvious reasons why reporting is going to be necessarily one-sided. By contrast, there is no clear reason why or how aliens (or angels, gods, kami) would interact sporadically with a few individuals, leaving little if any clear trace of their passing, despite the inordinate amounts of energy that would actually be required to achieve their stipulated movements (try to hide a space rocket launch for comparison).
Finally, I didn't insult you, so I don't expect to be insulted in return. I didn't even initially insult the people making these claims (I "insulted" the claims themselves), though I did do that in my follow-up comment, for which I apologize. Still, some of the people making these claims have been proven to have simply lied for various reasons. I firmly believe all of the others have had various hallucinations such as sleep paralysis or symptoms of various mental illnesses. This is not an insult, anymore than claiming that all people who have heard Lord Vishnu's voice and seen his chariot are either mistaken, lying, or have experienced some kind of altered mental state.
Claims of implanted devices have never been medically confirmed.
Wow, you're trying to get out of what you did. You didn't insult the people, you insulted the claims? No you did not.
"as they are all either delusions, lying, false memories etc."...
"the various crackpots and deluded people who claim"...
You don't think it's an insult to a person to call their experience, sincerely recounted, a delusion, a lie, a false memory? Of course it is. Then as you admit, honorably, you do call them crackpots and deluded. Fair enough, but just because some people have been proven liars (or in the rape case, fake accusers), does not mean we should doubt other people coming forward, does it? and certainly does mean we should blanket call those people crackpots, or deluded or pretend they're lying, does it? "Finally, I didn't insult you, so I don't expect to be insulted in return." You don't expect to be insulted in return for accusing others in this abusive way of being without credibility? Exactly what I said, You expect silence in response to your abuse. Reform yourself. I saw you pushing down on people, and I pushed back. You can't take it? Don't dish it out. That's the way it is, focker.
You may firmly believe it, but then you're blind (or empathically missing the point) that accusing someone of having a mental illness, or hallucinating something you haven't experienced and have no frame for, is an insult, and more than that. You're saying you know their mind better than they do. You're saying their experience, of their life, is trumped by your opinion. And is less valuable than your "in the stands" commentary on it. You are not involved at all in what they experienced, yet you denigrate it, and claim you're not insulting them. Abusive insulting practice hiding behind veneer of being legitimate.
All I'm saying about physics is we don't know it all yet, and can't assume we do. Science admits as much, but few on the inside are courageous enough to take that to its logical conclusion.
Comparing evidence for rape, abuse, etc, to evidence for aliens is not disgusting, and you're certainly okay with doing that because you're okay to claim that all these millions of people with their stories and experiences must have simply imagined it, implanted a false memory, lied, etc. It's not about reporting being one-sided, it's about reporting consisting solely of witness testimony, often just of one person. That's true both for the alien case, and the rape and abuse case. You don't quite seem to see what you're doing when you want to doubt so many people for telling their story. It wasn't a long time in the past when people were laughed at or dismissed for telling their stories of rape and abuse, just like you'd have people do with those with stories of aliens today.
It seems you have not been acquainted with enough stories, I suggest you do some research and read up on people discussing abduction stories, and so on. Enter it as a skeptic, full of confidence you'll be able to explain it away. Talk to people involved. Give them a chance to be heard. Empathize with them. Instead of pretending you're "disgusted" by the very same comparative dismissal you yourself are hawking, while somehow laying claim to a moral grounding in this when you've been behaving anything but about it.
Recently my grandmother, whom I had just helped out of an ambulance and back into her apartment, told me that she had just come back home after meeting with a neighbor. I was not "accusing" her of something, nor insulting her, when I called her doctor to let them know she was having delusions.
Similarly, when someone is reporting something we know to be impossible or extremely improbable from other considerations, we are not accusing them of something when we say that their experience or memory of that experience was delusional (or mistaken, depending on the details). Again, I was insulting when I called such people "delusional", as it implies they often have such hallucinations, which of course I can't know and don't believe - and, again, for this I apologize.
Now, the major difference to accusations of sexual assault is the plausibility of the claim. I of course do not personally know if Harvey Weinstein assaulted any of the women that accused him. However, I know that such accusations are painful and risky for the person making them; and I know that sexual assault is something that can absolutely happen; so, the witness testimony carries a lot of weight.
If on the other hand the exact same women accused Harvey Weinstein of stealing their souls through satanic rituals, I would not think much of these claims, and I would believe, and feel justified in believing, that the women are either lying or have had some hallucinations that have convinced them of this (or are having false memories).
Of course, if you tend to believe that aliens (or angels, curses etc) are plausible, you may lend more credence to these testimonies, even without scientific style evidence for what may have happened.
I still believe that comparing the certainty we can have that sexual assault is a real thing that real men and women may experience to the certainty that aliens (or demons and ghosts) are real is deeply insulting to victims of sexual assault.
I also don't believe there are millions of people claiming to have experienced alien abductions. Looking around a bit, I assume this claim is coming from a Roper Poll that found 119 out of some 6000 respondents had experiences which were considered typical of alien abduction, which would be extrapolated to 3.7 million out of the 185 million people for which the poll was representative. Crucially, the respondents were not claiming that they had had an experience of being abducted by aliens, they were claiming that they had had some experiences like "waking up paralyzed and feeling a presence in the room", "finding puzzling scars on your body", "seeing unexplained lights in a room" - all of which require a significant jump to conclude "ALIENS!". In the best case, they could be used to claim unknown phenomena are real, but to pick any specific posited phenomenon would be deeply wrong: these are as likely to be signs of aliens as they are of being fairies or ancestor spirits or mind/body dualism or anything else; including altered mental states (especially as the poll didn't even ask about the respondent's belief that the experience was real - for all we know, some of those 119 people could have sought psychiatric help themselves after these experiences).
- thanks for proving my point. you doubt granny because you know her to already be of inconstant and diseased mind, and you are involved in and know the facts of what actually happened, because you were there. so you're in a reasonable position of authroity to dispute her suggested history as well as label it as a delusion. but wrong that you equate this with your unfair, unreasonable, arrogant and abusive criticism of people with alien/UFO stories as deluded, or delusions. equivalently, you place yourself above them, pretend with zero justification you knew better, were somehow ahold of the facts of the situation or were there, you weren't, and have zero klnowledge of their mental state but blanket critcize humiliate and dismiss them. yet insiste you were still right to do so, because you care for you granny? sickening to abuse the love for you granny to try to pass of your abusive behaviour on others as okay. also sickening that this analogy is one where the power imbalance is great, you are in a carer position for granny, you have power in relation to her, and you are deciding things for her. sickening and revealing how you think about these people whose stories you trashed.
it's not disrespectful to true UFO experiencers, or abductees, nor to true victims of drug abuse, sexual assault and rape to comapare their claims to UFO and alien witnesses, and to each other, because it's about evidence and the truth. if we discount the standard of evidence we undermine justice which is the very thing that can strive to protect and remedy real victims. it is disrespectful to undermine the standards of truth and evidence underlying criminal culpability and conviction by applying a biased standard to some and not others because you're saying we'll believe you because of our pre-existing beliefs not because of the facts of the case and your story, applying this discount to the standards required is totally disrespectful to true victims of crime because it lowers the percieved quality of evidence and allows the true claims to be swamped by false ones. It's false to believe something occurs because in general you believe it to occur therefore in a specific instance it is more likely. Each case must be considered on its evidence and merits. Even tho your opinins have no legal impact, they risk damaging the public narrative and discourse around these topics by degrading the reliability of real witnesses by demonstrating a bias toward believing claimaints that align with particular beliefs versus otherwise. This essentially reduces rape (and sexual abuse, etc) to a culturally relative, temporally relative, belief relative consturct, rather than the rock solid legal position it can be to solidly prosecutre and punish true perpetrators, and bring justice to real victims. You don't seem to see that degrading the standards of evidence by giving preferential treatment to those things you believe, rather than taking cases on their merits and comparing them equally regardless of the topic of the story or its current status in the cultural milieu is the best way to bring justice to victims and their families, everyone involved, and society as a whole. That's the empathic and compassionate position to take: to hear everyone's story, but adjudicate each claim in a balanced and unbiased way free of discrimination (based on belief) or prejudgement. That's the essence of judgement, and under the guise of you thinking you're being just you're just undermining it.
looking at that honestly is the ebst way to respect true victims of sexual abuse, parental abuse, accusations of drug abuse (vs planted evidence). again, you're so deluded or deliberately deceptive in that you think you're being good, but were actually being abusive, and protest when people stand up against that, and also think that trashing that value of witness testimony, while holding up a biased standard because you have reason to think that in "general" these things happen, therefore specifically it happened -- that's not the weight of testimony at all! that's undermining everything. you have reason to think that in "general" alien things happen because of the preponderance of evidence, but you're biased, revealing a lack of even handedness that's actually harmful and disrespectful to true victims and to justice. casting doubt on stories because people look at it preferentially or in a biased way. that's not the weight of testimony at all, that undermines it. you casually disregard the pain and fear of people sharing UFO stories while ignoring the obvious humiliation and abuse and dismissals and disbelief they are subjected to, just as you wanted to subject them to, yet you stand there and pretend to be for victims of sexual abuse. so disrespectful, and disingenuous! you may have pesonal experience but that doesn't mean you stand for victims and justice when you undermine people like this in these biased and unfair ways.
Your consciousness is a physical process happening in your body (especially your brain). It can no more travel the universe than your digestion can manifest in another galaxy.
Also, even if consciousness is somehow separate from the body, it is still subject to the speed of light limit, as long as it can interact with the physical world.
Stop pretending. You have NO idea what consciousness is or isn't. You speak these words as if they are truth, "it can no more", but you are not god. You don't decide. You're trying to limit the reality of existence to your own limited and biased experience of it. Fine, OK. Do that if it's too scary for you to look outside that shell, but don't you dare - EVER - try to call people crackpots liars and deluded because they think different and have experienced different to you. See your own bias, and exist within that if that's what you choose. But don't persecute others or impose your priors as if they're truth. You think it's fair game to attack people whose stories you don't believe as liars, crackpots and deluded? Well I'm here to push back on you. Do you get it? I'm here to tell you it's not fair game, focker. Do you get that?
I will simply note that I am merely stating what is the current understood scientific consensus, and my personal belief. Obviously everyone is free to believe whatever they want, but I am also free to think they are entirely wrong and explain why.
It's already abusive if you were an innocent here, but as it stands it's the commensurate response to your abuse, and that's the point, you're getting back what you gave, and it's justified because because you're the primary aggressor. You started it but try to disown your responsibility. You're still blind to the that.
If you'd stated your opinion in this respectful way differential to the opinions of others initially then there would have been no issue. It was your arrogance and abusive language that led to your downfall here.
even if you're unable to publicly admit your responsibility here, nor acknowledge your mistake and admit your guilt, hopefully you learn that now for yourself. That would be good.
On this thread, I did state my opinion in a clear and respectful way. I did not accuse the GP of anything at all, and I responded to their definite assertion (that consciousness can travel non-materially at infinite speed) with a definite assertion of my own (that consciousness is a physical process and subject to special relativity as much as other physical processes).
"This thread" is still here with your totally disrespectful "This paper lends absolutely no credence to the various crackpots and deluded people who claim they have met aliens."
And you think this is respectful "Your consciousness is a physical process happening in your body (especially your brain). It can no more travel the universe than your digestion can manifest in another galaxy" Again your speaking for someone else, "your consciousness", "can no more", as if you are setting the limits.
If you'd said, "I think," or even better, "my consciousness..." or even better, "I've never experienced..." If you'd showed curiosity...or asked to learn more. That is respectful.
But you assert these things as if they're irrefutable truths, and talk of science. But you haven't considered the science of consciousness and remote viewing. Search the Central Intel Agency archives for this or join an online community and try for yourself if you're going to speak with such absolutism about things which you do not know anything at all. Educate yourself first, otherwise you'll get a part of the picture but think you know everything to deny all other parts, like this attitude: https://www.eschoolnews.com/2015/06/18/scandinavian-schools-...
The poster above also stated their beliefs as absolute truths, by your standards: "You don't need to travel physically when you can do it instantly with your conscience.". My tone is perfectly identical with theirs - we are both plainly stating our opinions of how the world works.
Of course, you are again wildly off base with your reading of my replies. "You" in both my post and the post I was replying to were not referring to someone in particular, they are obviously the rhetoric "you". They weren't telling me that I, personally, am able to travel instantly with my consciousness, and I wasn't telling them that they, personally, were not allowed to do so.
Then, adding "I think", "I believe" etc is generally just noise - obviously everything I say is a personal belief or thought. Saying "my particles can't travel with speed greater than c" or "I've never experienced something traveling faster than c" would be needlessly specific - my belief in the theory of special relativity only works if it applies to everything, so that is the belief I stated.
At best, if I wanted to be quite pedantic, I could have added an "According to special relativity,".
You're really quite offended by basic speech and physical facts...
You haven't offended me. You've offended yourself, and the decency of the people you spoke to on here. You limited yourself, and disrespected them and I saw you doing that and pushed back. And you complain and now try to prove you were mostly OK all whole time. You're offended here, isn't it?
So...basic speech and physical facts, huß? So you read it as I'm offended by these things hmm, that's interesting. I suppose reading it that way you can more easily dismiss or try to minimize to yourself what I'm saying, tell yourself it's just emotional or irrational and something you don't need to learn form.
Do you know how I feel about it? If you really know then tell me? You don't know. You're just pretending, to suit yourself.
The difference with the other posted is they are not imposing limits, but you are. You might think it's symmetric, but it's not. It's more likely that things are more abundant than you know, than that you have already discovered everything that's possible, so you should be more respectful and modal when expressing restrictions.
You say adding qualifiers like "I think" and "I believe" is noise, but it's about respect and empathy and the tactic acknowledgment that you don't have all the answers, other people's ideas are valid, and what you are saying comes with that openness and curiosity to learning more. It makes sense that you read those things as "noise" given the low quality of your responses and low respect and empathy with other's opinions here: ie your totally disrespectful language pretending people who don't share your narrow view are "crazy"
It's good you reveal your thinking about it. I think you are missing the point that you're not just writing down a verbatim statement of the facts like a dry mathematical treatise or policy document you are communicating with other human beings. Trying to come off like that, will do you much better, and I think you have much to learn.
You'll definitely be able to do that if you make the effort it. That's why I spent so much time on you.
I believe you can, please do the effort and have a good one.
"Scientific consensus" seems a little bit like a dogma. The science of the mind and the philosophy of life on nowadays hegemonic culture is so in daipers that I wouldn't try to take it so seriously. I won't talk about your beliefs, they're yours and nobody is entitled to question them. The thing about scientific consensus though... Not so much.
Still, if consciousness can pass physical barriers and disconnect from the body, and interact with matter or other consciousnesses, we should be able to scientifically test this with relative ease, at scientific standards of reproducibility.
You could argue that we just lack the mental technology to achieve this, just as some string theorists argue we lack the physical technology to detect supersimmetry, and then we are each left with our beliefs until such a time as these mental/physical technologies are developed.
Psychoenergetics experiments were done that, among other things, provided successful access to information through mental means only by a viewer in a submersible 140 m and more below the surface of the ocean, and also viewers were able to see eclipses of the moons of Jupiter and that information was verified 80 minutes later by astronomers. Jupiter is 80 light minutes away. That indicates that it operates faster than the speed of light. there's other known phenomena that do, information exchanged via entanglement is thought to operate faster than the speed of light. As far as could be determined these consciousness abilities could not be shielded and were not electromagnetic in nature.
Could you cite some of these studies? I would be honestly curious to read them.
Note that entanglement, while non-local as a process in most interpretations of QM, is mathematically proven to be unable to transmit information any faster than the speed of light.
Well, in the case of that paper it's true. It's using deductive reasoning, but my statement is more easily read about inductive reasoning. However, you could equally read it, "other theories that provide predictions that contradict this reasoning". My point was be constructive and creative, not just dismissive and destructive. Have something to offer, an alternative way of viewing the world, rather than just saying "this way doesn't work".
But reading it the way you did, I disagree. We do have plenty of data on aliens. Do we have any "data" on drug-use? On parental abuse? On sexual assault? Most of these "data" are self-reported by people involved. But that's "hard data" from a public health / legal point of view.
Equivalently, we have plenty of witness data about actual non-human beings in craft. And we have plenty of data about craft that seem to exceed anything we are capable of. So we have "we do have plenty of data" not "we don't have any data at all" is what you meant to say, if you were reading the world consistently, honestly and openly.
Dudette if you're going to spend such time on an answer, at least look at the evidence closely.
Ice???? They were seeing and tracking levitating and maneuvering swarms of ice tic tacs for month visually and on radar. Are you sure? This is nuts.
3 is false. It clearly went nose toward him, then started matching his spiral down with a spiral up.
1 is false. It didn't disintegrate at ocean surface, it vanished after spiraling up toward him and jamming radar.
Then reappeared later at the designated rendezvous point.
Maybe it is made of ice. But that's smart, intelligence, possibly alien ice with advanced propulsion. So you didn't really prove anything with the ridiculous ice claim. Please do better.
I accept that the FLIR locks jumps might contribute to perceived movement. Fair enough. But USS Omaha tracking these things vectoring on radar is not an artefact.
- incapable of using cell phone cameras while on board a ship, even at the highest levels where rules against cell phones could be overridden, and
This is false. There are videos released from Navy aviators recorded using cell phones.
I agree with you that quality of video is pathetic. But it's good enough I suppose to bring us all here today to argue about it which is pretty sad I guess
>They were seeing and tracking levitating and maneuvering swarms of ice tic tacs for month visually and on radar.
That's not what he said on Lex Fridman podcast. It was more like days. But that is according to the radar which was created by his buddy who could have been trolling him knowing he was going to be in the area.
>3 is false. It clearly went nose toward him, then started matching his spiral down with a spiral up.
I think the nose and the spiral are details you added. I think it "came up" in the same sense that someone might say "the ground came up to meet me" when they describe the perception they might have when landing with a parachute or when diving steeply in an airplane. Not necessarily that it was flying upward.
His perception may very well have been that it was flying upward. But again, he has zero experience with whatever this was, and his brain is used to seeing flying, powered, maneuvering objects, so his brain is fitting the data it sees to that preconceived experience, and not thinking about a falling slab of ice. So in this way his experience was actually working against him understanding what he was seeing.
>1 is false. It didn't disintegrate at ocean surface, it vanished after spiraling up toward him and jamming radar.
I never said it was at the surface though. Yes it vanished, we all agree on that. Can't speak to the jamming but I don't recall him mentioning that. In any case it could have been his radar buddy trolling him, I don't see any reason not to keep that possibility in play.
>Then reappeared later at the designated rendezvous point.
His good buddy who went to his wedding was trolling him. Or the radar operator was in on it and also trolling him.
>There are videos released from Navy aviators recorded using cell phones.
There was a series of incidents last summer (2020) with supposedly 3 days of drone sightings.
Not one video. (If you disagree, please provide links.)
They even anticipated more sightings on day 3 and intentionally, deliberately, with planning, brought in a camera crew with, inexplicably, a single camera apparently and what did they film? They pointed the camera down onto the radar screen while they claim the things were buzzing the ships outside. The resulting footage is so fuzzy you can't even make out the text on the radar screen.
While this was going on for three nights, we are to believe that not one single navy person walked outside on the deck or looked through a porthole and took even one single video of the drones that were swarming the ship… or, if they did, their discipline is so good that none of the videos have ever been posted.
They're both arrogant unfortunately. I thought the views of Neil on UFOs, like the views of Joe on psychics were really low value. They're both engaging in "let's selectively ignore evidence and witnesses to preserve existing biases and our existing preferred beliefs" but neither of them see it. They're a mirror of each other: Neil wants to gaslight on UFOs, and Joe wants to gaslight on psychics. And their big platform and audience everyone laps it up. Really, truly sad. But hey, it's OK. People step towards truth but slowly.
Yes but probably those planets will be thousands of years in the past. We should also spend money studying the things that are here now. Scary as it is to look for the "monster under the bed"
Hahaha. "Debunking" video by Mick West. He's the guy that thinks the Navy can't tell the difference between a bird, and an aircraft. A bug on a sensor and the plane. Desperate mental gymnastics a crazy attempt to confirm existing biases and preserve a belief system he feels is threatened by data. Why have anything to do with someone so trapped like that?
Sampling bias. Try searching in languages other than English. Belgium UFO wave. Mexico City UFOs. UFOs in South America.
I think it's fishy that most SSP/SAP insider people with so called UFO related leaks come from the US (and further, are white dudes), because it seems like these programs would be global. But you can definitely find UFO reports happening around the world.
Want a rabbit hole? Search "不明飞行物在中国" on Baidu and go to the videos page.
it's kind of dodgy if you can point to one flawed human and say, "see i found some dirt" and use that to convince yourself that everything you can somehow tenuously connect to that human must be false. radical simplification of reality. i understand the motivation, but i don't think it pass muster.
"breathe a sigh of relief, people, the US government today, can announce, that after decades of so-called unexplained sightings, radar data, navy witnesses, civilian encounters worldwide numbering in the millions, we have finally been able to come to a conclusive and final answer that will explain once and for all the previously mysterious phenomena known as UFOs. Here it is, folks: Luis Elizondo has been proven to be a crank. Now all of us can rest in the surety that UFOs must therefore be false, and no further study needs to be done about any of it. Thank you."
it's like a "omg i can't take this truth" fantasy to think this kind of stuff. Just be a little bit open, if it scares you, just ignore it...but pretending it's not real....closes yourself off to reality.
or Telegram
Or Signal
And have nobody spy on you
"Trust me, I'm Italian."