Applying your logic, did you feel bad for seamstresses when industrial revolution took off? did you feel bad for hardware manufacturers in America when they were outsourced to China? Art is also a form of labor and whoever can produce quality at quantity wins. Idealizing art in some sort of religious idolation is just plain silly. We haven't had the Picassos or Mozarts or Oscar Peterson for quite some time now yet the world is just fine. People play playlists in front of millions of live crowd and get accolade for it vs real instruments. Times change, technology change and art changes.
You either adapt or go hungry just like everybody else and art shouldn't be exempt from the mechanics of supply and demand.
I almost agree with you that this is about quality, but I still feel that the context in which art comes from influences how I perceive it.
Take, for example, a track by Fontaines D.C., a band from Ireland that writes extensively about the lived social and political experience.
Knowing where they are from and the general themes of their work makes their tracks feel authentic, and you can appreciate the worldview they have and the time spent producing the art, even if it does not align with your own tastes.
Trying to create something of the same themes and quality from a prompt of “make me an Irish pop rock track about growing up in the country” suddenly misses any authenticity.
Maybe this is what I am trying to get at, but like I said, I feel some conflict about this, as I personally value these tools for productivity
What's special about Suno 5 is that the songs are actually good to listen to in place of professionally produced songs. For example, my favorite genre is new jack swing and there is a very limited number of this genre as it was briefly popular during the 90s. Now I have an endless supply of it and you can't tell that its AI produced anymore. Sure to an expert they might be able to detect it but for consumers its just as good as spotify playlist.
This is the first time I'm actually paying for generated AI content because the value I get is immense. I really think we are headed towards and over supply of content where there will be more stuff to read, watch, listen with very real value in all of them.
This spells out the inevitable change in the labor market for content creators. There will always be value for human created content and some will make more money but it will always have the AI generated content generation competing with it to the point where it will be hard to stay ahead and eventually people will stop caring.
Case in point, I see some comments being snarkish towards Suno but for as a consumer I could care less if you put your soul and years into producing art vs the one I can get a lot of today and now especially when there is virtually no difference in quality.
Truly an amazing accomplishment from Suno team, and probably the first time I've subbed to a music service after decades of downloading mp3s, hunting down new songs to listen to on Youtube. Suno 'steamified" this process and while I will use youtube to discover new genre, I am spending now most of my time in Suno, listening to endless amount of the exact sound I am looking for.
> as a consumer I could care less if you put your soul and years into producing art vs the one I can get a lot of today and now especially when there is virtually no difference in quality
> I really think we are headed towards and over supply of content where there will be more stuff to read, watch, listen with very real value in all of them.
Yes, but not uniformly so - some niches are very popular, but there's plenty of obscure ones where if you're a fan you literally know everyone making music in some very niche genre because there are so few of them.
I've had some fun with Suno 5, but the songs absolutely don't replace well-made human music. They're much more formulaic and over-produced. They're usually forgettable. People I play them for can always tell they're AI produced.
True music enthusiasts will holdout for a while but I think AI music will easily replace most Pop currently on the radio and streaming for your average Joe. That stuff has been "fake" as early as the mid 2000's by being quantized straight to the grid, pitched, with programmed drums, guitar, even vocals and then churned out like widgets on a conveyor belt.
Currently for me, in the type of music I have enjoyed from v4.5+. V5 of their model is a regression.
I was very impressed with v4.5+ that I could get quite good songs evocative of Devo, Yeah Yeah Yeah's, Metric, etc.
Version 5 is currently harder (or I haven't figured out a way) to generate this kind of chopped/produced sound. It doesn't follow complex style definitions and tends to generate songs that are too slow and "smoothed" over.
V5 could be built different, and it will take a few revisions until they match v4 “creativity” for lack of a better word. What v5 brings is quality in the recording. Less AI shimmering in the background. But yes, I agree the songs are more… flat.
I find it depends how you generate it. Asking Suno to make covers of uploaded recordings tends to give much, much better results than asking it to cook a song from scratch. There are still quite a few tells that it's AI-made but it's not bad at all, at least in my experience so far.
I simultaneously feel repulsed by AI music and "art" and yet am totally open to being captivated by AI music if I really feel something is musically better than almost any human-made music I've heard.
I just haven't heard anything that isn't "slopful" yet. If I do, I will still feel weird about it, but I'm a big believer in the value of "aesthetic objects in themselves", so I am eager to find something I do actually like.
Even just knowing something was drawn or composed by an AI will negatively taint my opinion from the start, but I'm still open.
I don't totally discount the position that the human "soul" is what makes art art and all that, but I still do think something can be very enjoyable and good without being created by a sentient entity, in theory.
Don't you need more focus and aggression to make even sell-out weak tea dubstep? I feel the generative process really severely fails to deliver anywhere near the correct sound, even for 'bad artificial lol dubstep' sounds.
Couldn't agree more. Instead of seeking out people making that art, we are now leaving "art" or human expressive emotion to random noise and paying for it.
Rather than call it a lie, I think it would be more fair to say in this instance it's a matter of taste/perspective. Personally, I enjoy listening to Suno songs.
Overton Window shift basically. One side used cancel culture relentlessly for even the smallest slights. Now the other side is using the very same tactic. Many people who have kept out of the extremes have now shifted towards the right and those who ignore the shift are finding out the hard way.
I advise HN users who aren't aware of what's happening, read up on what Overton Window is and why its dangerous to continue posting the way you have without infosec.
You think you are posting only on HN but your posts are actually being distributed on other platforms by people who are very angry.
Users on Bluesky thought they were posting on Bluesky but they only found out too late, after they got fired because their political posts were being shared elsewhere.
There have already been few HN users who have been targeted for their radical views and have paid the price.
That's my take. Its worse this time because it's coming from the government, but in a sense that makes it actually an opportunity to fight it in court (and they absolutely should.) In any case, the rules of engagement have been clear for years: if we don't like you, then we're coming for your livelihood.
It's because you're comparing apples to oranges. Public shaming through social action vs the full weight of the federal government suppressing free speech; they are in two entirely different categories and shouldn't/can't be compared to each other without being misleading about the nature of the wrongs.
Weird the countries that are all in agreement with chat control all have migration/integration related problems now at odds with local european population that have grown fatigue to the excessive empathy and virtue signaling that have eroded their own identity and safety.
Could it be that this is a last ditched attempt to presumably stop a civil war that seems to be brewing by predominantly muslim vs european populations?
If this isn't a sign that the integration and the multicultural experiment has failed completely in Europe then I don't know what. A free democratic society that is peaceful would never need wide surveillance net like this.
It seems that non of the HN comments touch on the internal demographic tensions that has been going on for quite sometime. Western Europe and Scandinavia reminds me very much of Lebanon before civil war broke out between the Muslims and Christians.
Can you expand more on how many of the key seeming counterexamples to this in the map support this conclusion (e.g. DE should be the most red of them all, no?) or how the desire for CSAM surveillance is a proxy for the mixing rate of different religions in the regions? It feels unlikely we will agree about it, but I'm curious what you're seeing in this data that makes it seem so clearly the causal reason to you.
Reddit is terribly corrupted by something, but I don't think it's communism or socialism. Proof by contradiction: communists and socialists are very strong advocates for punching everyone they think are Nazis, but if you ever hint at that on Reddit (especially as your first comment), or you call Elon or Trump a Nazi, you'll be banned.
Identical to X, it's a platform that pushes what the corporate overlords want you to think, while making it look organic. Different from X, they push more advertising and pro-USA agenda than pro-right-wing.
Which subreddits are you talking about? 'Cause I'm pretty certain calling anyone a Nazi with zero discretion is a sign you're "normal" on Reddit, almost as if it were a purity test.
Anecdotally it’s coming under sonnet 4 for me but much quicker and if I understand the costs correctly, vastly cheaper. No idea if it’s subsidized or not but I am going to keep playing around with it. My example is it is definitely writing the code I want but with more quirks than sonnet. I only do things in chunks though.
The head guy gave a salute on live TV that gave it away. I deduced that anyone with half a brain would know what that meant. Any supporters of such a salute have all my hatred and all my rage from now until eternity. Suing Apple because his precious troll isn’t on the top app lists. His troll bot spouting racist remarks. Nope.
While this point might be open to debate, the original claim, which I definitely stand by, was not that Musk is a Nazi, but rather that xAI have put out a product under the grok brand which manifestly promoted nazi ideas.
If Musk is not in favor of those ideas he might need to work a bit harder to make that clear, because he does tend to leave people with the impression he’s okay with it.
He's the CEO, and there's now been a few "oh geez some rogue employee made grok say white supremacist stuff, we totally didn't mean for it to say that!" moments.
If the management isn't fixing the problems that led to those events, the management is responsible.
Isn’t he the CEO and owner? I thought their massive wealth and control was morally ok because they carried the responsibility for the companies actions at the end of the day.
Guess you can have the power and no responsibility! Always someone else’s fault!
Elon desperately convincing everyone he is not a Nazi, is like being asked to answer the question "Why do you beat your wife every day? " And then you trying to explain that "no it's not every day, in fact it is never." And then public opinion be like "He doth protest too much"
Nobody else needs to convince people they're not a Nazi. I certainly don't.
We can pretend to look the other way all day, or we can take some accountability. Apologizing isn't hard. It would be very easy for him to make this all disappear. But he won't do it.
Maybe it's pride, maybe he's just stupid, I don't know.
The ADL's morally bankrupt calculus is that they value support for Israel more, so they covered for Musk as long as he supports Israel. Which sadly, makes the rest of us less safe.
You either adapt or go hungry just like everybody else and art shouldn't be exempt from the mechanics of supply and demand.