Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | jy14898's commentslogin


While I'm not pro YouTube, I think it's fine for companies to decide how to monetise their product, including things which were originally free. If you don't like free services, stop using them


If a company wants to offer its service as a loss-leader to outlast its competitors who offered their services at a cost its users were willing to pay, then that company has no room to complain if people don't want to pay the last-game-in-town's jacked-up rates!

There is no moral high-ground for YouTube to take here.


Where is youtube complaining? Theyre just trying to stop you from using their service if you dont watch ads


[flagged]


GP and I are apparently from that universe where you remember that YouTube wasn't the only popular video on demand game in town and, e.g., Vimeo is older than YouTube. They only won because they didn't charge you for uploading or watching. They could afford to undercut the competition since they were bought by Google.

They were also somehow the only ones that offered music videos without being shut down.


As you yourself have stated in your comment, they were never competitors to YouTube because they monetized video upload...

I guess the only thing you've done is create a massive cognitive dissonance instead of multiverse travel.


Dailymotion, Google Video, sevenload, german TV stations RTL and Pro7 even launched Clipfish and MyVideo respectively to compete with youtube. Youtube happens to be the only one that survived on Googles ad model, the others very quickly realized that paid premium content is much easier to handle (copyright, CSAM) and monetize.


There wasn't but consider the context: at the time YouTube was an almost purely piracy platform most likely the biggest on the planet if quantified in IP dollar value - yet was magically not shut down by the government. How unfair to the competition is that? Remember that other piracy based sites were raided in that era. But when Google started acquiring it, it was very quickly above the law. YouTube should not exist.

- fair use was also sot as permissive in that era! Web 2.0 coerced a legal shift -


>If you don't like free services, stop using them

Problem is, there's no real alternative for YouTube. It's a monopoly.


By contributing to something I don't agree with it's called hypocrisy. Just don't use it. That's probably the only thing you can do about if you want change.


That’s not remotely true.


Okay, so list which websites I can use to watch all kinds of content that I can find on YouTube.

Vimeo? It's basically dead. DailyMotion? It could've been an alternative, but they've recently deleted most old videos. Peertube? Nice idea in theory, but lack of content.


Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Tiktok all fulfil the 'whatever topic I am interested in this second, there are videos about it' property, though admittedly they do not have near as much meritorious long-form content as YouTube.


Damn, I didn't know you could watch your long videos on TikTok. When did this happen?


According to the first Reddit thread that appeared as a result when I searched on Google, March 2022.


is use yewtu.be from time to time on web, and pipepipex on android.


Do you realize that those are just wrappers for YouTube, not a real competitor?


yup, not a problem for me.

-----

> Okay, so list which websites I can use to watch all kinds of content that I can find on YouTube.

it serve this purpose.


I was going to try to make the monopoly argument but then realized I only think youtube is a monopoly because I don't use tiktok.

It is just an oligopoly like most other sectors.


TikTok as an alternative to YouTube?

And then I realised people primarily consume shorts.


They're removing functionality that you already heave built into your browser in order to force you to pay to get that functionality back.

That's not monetization that's exploitation.

Would you feel the same if your phone suddenly updated so that your camera records in half quality unless you start paying monthly? It's their product, they can monetize it how they like.


The "functionality" is watching infinite free videos they provide. They are providing you with infinite free videos that you never paid for. You are not entitled to access the infinite free videos at all. You are definitely not entitled to access them in arbitrary ways that avoids their monitization scheme.


It's monetisation. If they put a paywall on the video, your browser has the functionality to play the video but you're forced to pay to use that functionality.

Also wrt phone, it's different because I paid for the phone. But also I'd just use a different camera app?


I don't think it's fine for large companies to intentionally lose money to drive smaller competitors out of business. In fact, I think this practice should be illegal and that all who participated should be in jail.


On the front of selling this is called dumping and is in fact illegal, i believe.


> including things which were originally free

Oh, I despise this tactic so much. It means the company has known from the start that they can't offer it for free in the long term, but decided to subsidize it in order to gain a dominant position and get rid of competition. This breaks the conditions needed for a free market dynamics to work. In other words, they win market share for reasons other than efficiency, quality, or innovation. That's why some forms of government subsidies are prohibited under certain agreements, for example. Some multinational corporations have annual revenues larger than the GDP of many countries and can easily subsidize negative pricing for years to undercut competitors, consolidate market share, and ultimately gain monopoly power.

Also, the company has hinted false promises to the customer, as it signals that they have developed a business model where they can offer something for free. For example a two-sided marketplace where one side gets something for free to attract users and the other side pays (as it profits form these users). Users can't know something isn't sustainable unless the company explicitly states it in some way (e.g. this is a limited time offer).

So from the user's perspective, this is a bait-and-switch tactic, where the company has used a free offer in order to manipulate the market.


> If you don't like free services, stop using them

If they don't like users using their service how they deem improper, ban them? they know what accounts are doing it... There is a reason for this cat and mouse, and its not ending with youtube banning people.

A lot of the current issues i see with it, is that it is treated like the go to service for video hosting...

Just consider image hosting... If i see an image in a thread and click it (much like people will do with youtube urls), and block the ad that was on the hosted site, is there this much uproar about it? That image hosting site might charge 5$ to do what an adblocker already does... If they wanna lock that up? actually lock it up, and remove the "service" portion of the business, otherwise I don't see any legs to stand on here.

Service in my eyes here, is a public service. This is a company posing as a public service, and occasionally deciding it hates how a % of the public is using their service. So they hand them a 10$ a month ticket that they pretend is required, but they will never take action on users who dont pay that ticket.


Is this product or hampering the way the web works with video? Go to any other site with a <video> tag and you won't face similar issues.


As soon as the laws on the books get enforced and they get broken up, sure. Until then, absolutely not.


Humans eat insects, current and past


Much like dogs eat grass.


I feel like any deviation from the syntax LLMs are trained on is not productive.

Sure you can represent the same code in fewer tokens but I doubt it'll get those tokens correct as often.


Yeah, big plus one from me. I recently tried to investigate some sort of alternative encoding to/from “the prompt,” and was swiftly told that was both not possible and would work against me. As you pointed out, the LLMs are trained on language and language itself is often not terse. Trying to skirt that will cause the LLM to calculate the vectors poorly because the relation between the input tokens and its training data doesn’t really exist.


I never want to unknowingly use an app that's driven this way.

However, I'm happy it's happening because you don't need an LLM to use the protocol.


you might like https://omrelli.ug/g9/ which is a similar concept but for graphics


I do like g9! It was a strong inspiration for bidicalc actually!


The post stated that it was believed duplication improved loading times on computers with HDDs rather than SSDs


Which is true. It’s an old technique going back to CD games consoles, to avoid seeks.


Is it really possible to control file locations on HDD via Windows NTFS API?


No, not at all. But by putting every asset a level (for example) needs in the same file, you can pretty much guarantee you can read it all sequentially without additional seeks.

That does force you to duplicate some assets a lot. It's also more important the slower your seeks are. This technique is perfect for disc media, since it has a fixed physical size (so wasting space on it is irrelevant) and slow seeks.


> by putting every asset a level (for example) needs in the same file, you can pretty much guarantee you can read it all sequentially

I'd love to see it analysed. Specifically, the average number of nonseq jumps vs overall size of the level. I'm sure you could avoid jumps within megabytes. But if someone ever got closer to filling up the disk in the past, the chances of contiguous gigabytes are much lower. This paper effectively says that if you have long files, there's almost guaranteed gaps https://dfrws.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021_APAC_paper... so at that point, you may be better off preallocating the individual does where eating the cost of switching between them.


From that paper, table 4, large files had an average # of fragments around 100, but a median of 4 fragments. A handful of fragments for a 1 GB level file is probably a lot less seeking than reading 1 GB of data out of a 20 GB aggregated asset database.

But it also depends on how the assets are organized, you can probably group the level specific assets into a sequential section, and maybe shared assets could be somewhat grouped so related assets are sequential.


Sure. I’ve seen people that do packaging for games measure various techniques for hard disks typical of the time, maybe a decade ago. It was definitely worth it then to duplicate some assets to avoid seeks.

Nowadays? No. Even those with hard disks will have lots more RAM and thus disk cache. And you are even guaranteed SSDs on consoles. I think in general no one tries this technique anymore.


> But if someone ever got closer to filling up the disk in the past, the chances of contiguous gigabytes are much lower.

By default, Windows automatically defragments filesystems weekly if necessary. It can be configured in the "defragment and optimize drives" dialog.


Not 'full' de-fragmentation, Microsoft labs did a study and after 64MB slabs of contiguous files you don't gain much so they don't care about getting gigabytes fully defragmented.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100529025623/http://blogs.tech...

old article on the process


> But if someone ever got closer to filling up the disk in the past, the chances of contiguous gigabytes are much lower

Someone installing a 150GB game sure do have 150GB+ of free space and there would be a lot of continuous free space.


It's an optimistic optimization so it doesn't really matter if the large blobs get broken up. The idea is that it's still better than 100k small files.


Not really. But when you write a large file at once (like with an installer), you'll tend to get a good amount of sequential allocation (unless your free space is highly fragmented). If you load that large file sequentially, you benefit from drive read ahead and OS read ahead --- when the file is fragmented, the OS will issue speculative reads for the next fragment automatically and hide some of the latency.

If you break it up into smaller files, those are likely to be allocated all over the disk; plus you'll have delays on reading because windows defender makes opening files slow. If you have a single large file that contains all resources, even if that file is mostly sequential, there will be sections that you don't need, and read ahead cache may work against you, as it will tend to read things you don't need.


Key word is "believed". It doesn't sound like they actually benchmarked.


There is nothing to believe. Random 4K reads for HDD is slow.


I assume asset reads nowadays are much heavier than 4 kB though, specially if assets meant to be loaded together are bundled together in one file. So games now should be spending less time seeking relative to their total read size. Combined with HDD caches and parallel reads, this practice of duplicating over 100 GBs across bundles is most likely a cargo-cult by now.

Which makes me think: Has there been any advances in disk scheduling in the last decade?


Who cares? I've installed every graphically intensive game on SSDs since the original OCZ Vertex was released.


Their concern was that one person in a squad loading on HDD could slow down the level loading for all players in a squad, even if they used a SSD, so they used a very normal and time-tested optimisation technique to prevent that.


Their technique makes it so that the normal person with a ~base SSD of 512 GB can't reasonably install the game. Heck of a job Brownie.


Nonsense. I play it on a 512GB SSD and it’s fine.


It's hard for me to use a laptop with win11 and one game (BG3) installed on a 512 GB SSD.


Stopped at 74 but managed to par all before that somehow. Didn't really do any problem solving/deep thinking about it, just clicking what felt right


I don't think you can apply Unix philosophy to a (GUI) web browser, you don't use it compositionally.


In fact, the web browser may be the best example of a program antithetical to the unix philosophy. It is a single program that does rendering, password management, video decoding, dev tools, notifications, extension systems, etc. Adding some new AI component is rather on-brand for browsers (whether a good decision or not).


Not literally. But in spirit.

I don't want my web browser to be a mediocre PDF reader. I want my good and perfected PDF reader to be a PDF reader. I don't want my web browser to be a Web development IDE. I want a specialised (version of) a browser with all the developer tools and one that lacks all these features is lighter, safer and simpler for browsing. I don't want an FTP client in my web browser (I don't want one anywere lol). Firefox was extracted from Mozilla back in the days exactly because Mozilla had become a browser that was bloated and crammed full of features that were unpolished or just subpar. Firefox saved Mozilla and fought back by being lean, fast, and terribly focused at doing one thing and doing talhat well.

I want a browser that's good and forever improving in letting me browse the web and run and use web-apps.


> you don't use it compositionally.

I would if I could!


Nothing really stops you from doing curl | awk , but you probably aren't.


curl is not a replacement for a web browser. No Javascript, no DOM.


But that's basically the promise, that the damn thing _can_ use arbitrary things compositionally.


by this logic sockets are also non-unix


I mean, that's not exactly wrong...


Open the page in two windows, with one that has note mode enabled


Thanks, I totally missed that the site is intended to be opened in multiple windows/tabs! That lede is buried in the code.

Wasn't familiar with BroadcastChannel, which allows communication between different ... windows and tabs ... of the same origin

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/BroadcastCh...


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: