In Malcolms auto biography they it was explicit that they were not friends.

The io issue can be solved in 2 ways: * by returning the pair of the list and it's length. * having functions that convert between simply typed and dependently typed lists.

However the ergonomics could probably be improved.

The API design is a real real issue, which is why I think something more "gradual" would be best.

I haven’t entirely followed what you meant by a solution to IO, but I’m not to surprising to hear there’s a solution.

I guess the point I had in mind was, in making the case of dependent languages stuff like this may not be immediately apparent (I might be confusing the concept of total languages or programming which may not necessarily be coupled to dependent types).

> as an aside by IO I do mean anything not known at compile time (interrupts & user input, network responses, network requests [who API may change in a breaking way], database entries, etc)

Cheers for your insight btw

ATS seems relevant, it has dependent types and linear types. My understanding isthat linear types have a lot in common with barrow checking.