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Also let's not forget about the mice, rats, birds, rabbits, frogs, lizards, moles, possums, snakes, insects etc... killed by plant agriculture.

This study estimates 7.3 billion animals die each year from harvested cropland in the US alone (not including insects).

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10806-018-9733-8


Mostly to grow crops to feed to animals to feed to humans. Cutting out the animals in the equation saves those lives too.


What a fantastic lie.


Given that animals will eat a lot of crops in their life and burn through those calories in order to grow, it seems self evident that more crops will be required than eating the crops directly. Why is it a lie?


Do you have trouble with the idea that millions of animals grown to be fed to humans need to eat something?


If the current scale of animal production had to be fed by grazing there would be little nature left anyway.


Sure, one step after another.

Can we agree to stop raising animals >specifically< for killing and consumption?

Subsequently, we can tackle the problem of accidental killing of animals through farming practices.


> Can we agree to stop raising animals >specifically< for killing and consumption?

No, because we omnivores enjoy eating animals, and there are not enough which die of natural causes to go around, and many natural causes make the meat unsafe to eat.

This is controversial, but I feel that eating animals is fundamental to being human and that to eat only plants is less than human — perhaps paradoxically, like an animal. I know many, many people disagree, but it’s how I feel, and no amount of rational argument will change that.


if you are not convinced by rational arguments it kinda is useless to discuss this topic anyways, then.


> Can we agree to stop raising animals >specifically< for killing and consumption?

No. "Let's all do exactly what I want" isn't an "agreement", or a "compromise" or anything remotely related.


If I consume one whole grass fed cow a year I am only taking a single sentient life.

How many sentient lives are you ending each year through your plant diet?


Crop fields do indeed disrupt the habitats of wild animals, and wild animals are also killed when harvesting plants. However, this point makes the case for a plant-based diet and not against it, since many more plants are required to produce a measure of animal flesh for food (often as high as 12:1) than are required to produce an equal measure of plants for food (which is obviously 1:1). Because of this, a plant-based diet causes less suffering and death than one that includes animals.

https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-kill-animals-too


You can pry my steak and chicken out of my cold dead hands. No, we definitely cannot all agree to stop raising food.


https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-kill-animals-too

Crop fields do indeed disrupt the habitats of wild animals, and wild animals are also killed when harvesting plants. However, this point makes the case for a plant-based diet and not against it, since many more plants are required to produce a measure of animal flesh for food (often as high as 12:1) than are required to produce an equal measure of plants for food (which is obviously 1:1). Because of this, a plant-based diet causes less suffering and death than one that includes animals.


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