You normally don't notice tbh. Switching PDS is entirely invisible to the frontend. There's a lot of self hosted PDS users (since it's basically a small go router + sqlite) but there's also bigger community PDS projects being spun up including blacksky and northsky.
As for frontends, there's a bunch of them and a lot of them focus on changing the UX. But for self hosted "bluesky", there is https://deer.social which is a forked client that still relies on the bluesky appview/backend and there is https://zeppelin.social which is downstream of deer social but also runs their own appview independent of "big bluesky".
If you go to that URL, you'll see the landing page for the atproto PDS software.
Edit: Ah, and seems Kuba is hosting a directory of profiles using their own PDS as well, lots of examples over there: https://blue.mackuba.eu/directory/pdses
Biggest one right now (excluding the default one) seems to be atproto.brid.gy, which has 40393 accounts.
Not only is the bluesky network highly centralized right now, its UI is designed to perpetually lock users into the main bluesky server. Even if you use your own identity, when sharing the URLs to the posts via the UI, the URL defaults to bsky dot app domain, which will break if the author ever moves to a second server.
2. If you change your handle (for did:plc, did:web can't do this because DNS) it used to break links but nowadays this isn't a problem because handle resolution respects historical handle naming (I think it works by post+handle age but I can't remember).
3. Also if you share posts using the did syntax instead of handle syntax (which bluesky seems to be slowly changing over to, at least profiles do this now), it's stable regardless of handle changes.
4. If you want to switch frontends, you can use an extension or app like at://wormhole to do so. UX for this should improve over time but that's a big "eventually".
5. Hopefully the at:// URI format catches on but that's a long ways away given that browsers make using custom URIs an absolute nightmare.
The default Bluesky frontend uses bsky dot app URL when you use the "Copy link to post". Now if one day, you lose trust in this server and switch your PDS, this link continue working depends on this very non-trusted server. If this server is profit-seeking, it can break such links.
An extension or another app is not the solution, and neither is the new at:// URI format, because what matters is the relationship the default server sets up with its majority of users. Most bsky users will lose their traffic to their own posts and therefore will be locked-in, cementing this one server to be the dominant one in all perpetuity. We will therefore get all the patterns of monopolistic abuse that we have seen elsewhere.
The crazier part is that it's spreading to more industries and more countries thanks to Americans thinking they should tip everyone everywhere. Thanks.
My take is that it is spreading not due to culture, but due to how all new point of sale systems / card terminals come with a "tip" feature implemented.
I'm from Europe, and have traveled here extensively. Tipping is pretty rare, but for the past maybe 5 years, almost all new payment terminals have the tipping option.
If the EU can force every person on earth to dismiss a cookie popup on every website they visit, surely they can pass some regulation to rein in the expansion of tipping.
For example, just make it a requirement that the default tip is 0% in point of sale systems.
This is absolutely true, but that is exactly how culture spreads now. Through products/software/media.
American business software, American movies, American YouTube channels. They will inject American problems and solutions into your country, like it or not.
Microsoft may treat your privacy slightly better because of the GDPR, but those invasive systems are still there, toggled off. Waiting for Microsofts lobbying to chip away at the privacy laws until they can turn them on.
Microsoft doesn't need to chip at the privacy laws of the EU, the EU is doing that itself by introducing massive state surveillance laws every 6 months.
No, it's spreading because corporations are waking up to what an insanely good deal "pay my employees for me" is.
In my state an employer is only responsible for raising an employee's effective wage (for the entire pay period) to minimum wage if the tips don't.
You can tip someone working as a waiter $100 and unless they've already hit minimum wage for that pay period, all you're doing is handing $100 to the owner because it's $100 they don't have to pay in wages. Once the waiter has met minimum wage, then the money actually goes to them.
Same here. We have really cut down on the amount of "out for lunch/dinner" activities we plan. One reason is the tip situation; the other is because we can cook as well at home than out of the house. In the past (80s), going out to dinner was considered a real treat. In the 2000s, it was commonplace. Now, I think we are back to the 80s mentality (cost, tipping, food quality, etc)
In California we've set the tipped minimum wage to the same as the non-tipped minimum wage (so employers have to pay their employees the same regular minimum wage regardless of whether or not it's a tipped job). Unfortunately, that hasn't fixed the tipping problem.
Of course, a living wage in California is quite a bit higher then even our above-average minimum wage, so that's a big part of it.
I'd argue that (our socially-obligatory form of) tipping is a deceptive pricing practice (not really any better than a store labeling shelves with a giant $4 and a .99 written so small you need a magnifying glass to perceive it). As such, if banning it is too impractical, they should disincentivize it with the tax system. I can't figure out the best way, but it's disappointing that our government is obviously not trying to.
Note: I don't care one bit if someone wants to recognize an exceptional act by handing $20 to a worker -- that's great. That's not the same as giving a bartender $4 for spending 12 seconds pouring vodka and redbull into a glass or tipping $3 when I stood in line to order at a counter and came to fetch my food when my number is called.
I think a ban on the solicitation of tips, including tip jars, would be practical and easy to implement. It would still be legal to tip if not asked/prompted. That would make the tip prompts on payment terminals illegal, as well as tip jars.
I don’t think tipping would continue without a way to demand tips or shame people with prompts.
my wife worked under this regime of we-pay-below-minimum and you make it up with tips, when she was a student. it’s illegal in multiple states. including the state where it was done to her. but if you need that sort of job you’re typically probably not in a position to go after your employer…
I'm guessing this barely applies in practice, since only 1% of hourly employees make minimum wage. A tipped employee who doesn't reach minimum wage is probably getting fired regardless.
This is why power/hegemony are good. This is what Euros get for their lazy, easy lives of "work to live" and siestas. You don't get to have your own culture anymore. Start working hard or continue to fade into obscurity.
It is also not "tip" anymore, it is just "whatever pays the most" gets the service. It is just to maximise profit out of suckers, something US have perfected (from insurance to fast passes).
I don't mind tipping for exceptional service, I do however have a major issue with the obligation of tipping. It really should not be on the customers to pay the employees salaries directly.
I don't think we should be tipping at all, even for exceptional service. The job is the job, and the employer should be paying the full amount that job is worth. If the employee is doing it exceptionally well, going above and beyond, the employer should reward them with a raise, same as for salaried positions.
That's assuming the employer values that above-and-beyond-ness, of course. If not, they won't give that raise, and employees will eventually settle on a level of service that the employer is paying for. If that's good enough for the customers, that's fine. If not, that's an opportunity for a competitor to pay employees more so they'll serve customers better.
Customers should not be put in the awkward position of feeling like they should be augmenting people's wages, even if it's on top of an already-sufficient living wage. Wages paid is a negotiation between employer and employee. Customers should not be involved, beyond paying the listed or contracted/agreed-upon price.
I live in a country with near zero tipping culture.
For the most part I find the food gets to my table at some point but I'm rarely particularly happy with customer service. It's sometimes an awkward negotiation to get their attention or to ask something. The opposite was true in my time living in the US - soft skills, fast response, engagement are standard. And I've been on both sides of that in food service.
Now, the logic of what youre talking about makes perfect sense and I agree with that in principle. And yet there is something about dining that is somehow different. Escapes that definition.
There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality.
Don't get me wrong, I live in EU for a reason, but some things here are made unnecessarily complicated and oblique too.
I haven't spent almost any time in Europe, but in the US at some point it seems to have gone from a setup to incentivize that "soft skills, fast response, engagement" to one that I don't feel does that much due to the social obligation. When your worst case scenario is 18% and your best case is likely 20% + rounded up, who bothers to change their behavior? In my experience it's more like a commission than a tip, and that's because the only real impact is it encourages the waiters to remember to promote expensive alcoholic drinks before and during the meal, since you can earn way more money getting 18% from a table who orders 2 drinks than you do by earning 21% from a table drinking water. As a commission, it should be paid by the employer.
I call tipping the "A*hole discount" because only someone who is comfortable being seen as one would consider tipping 0% or even 10%. And servers will tell you that if you receive terrible, horrible, very bad service you should never tip zero, you should speak to the manager instead (since yadda yadda, the tips are for everyone, you don't know whose fault it is, etc). So instead of tips being a way to reward good service, it's actually just a discount reserved for people who are so uncouth that (A) they don't care if everyone at their table thinks they're an ass, and (B) they don't mind taking food off the table of low-wage workers (very low in states that have the horrible policy of a lower "tipped" min wage). Do those people really deserve a discount?
> There are also times I find that exchanging money is more honest. I want you to serve me, I'm paying you, I don't have to keep at the back of my mind a question whether I'm asking something beyond what your boss expects/pays you. I like that about the US - it's brutal but that's reality.
But isn't this describing tipping? You're having to ask yourself, "Is this service good enough for a tip? How much of a tip?" instead of just exchanging money for the service and that's it.
It is and that's why my point is that there is nuance here.
I had more fun and more satisfaction working in food service in the US than in the EU. There was also more real opportunity right there on the spot to do the thing and get more.
Like yeah, you're having to ask yourself and that's friction. But shouldn't there be a friction when you're being served by someone who is an equal? I've seen folks treat service like garbage in the EU because that exchange obscures the fact that there is an exchange of money. And I've seen service fall back on apathy.
But this is just one way to look at it - ideally it should be exactly as you describe - good service, simple exchange at specified price and confidence that the service is adequately paid for the job.
Only issue is that even in the EU this is often not the truth and restaurants would never ever afford to actually hire full-time employment contracts.
> Like yeah, you're having to ask yourself and that's friction. But shouldn't there be a friction when you're being served by someone who is an equal? I've seen folks treat service like garbage in the EU because that exchange obscures the fact that there is an exchange of money. And I've seen service fall back on apathy.
Interestingly, I arrive at an entirely separate conclusion - there is no way for equality in a relationship in which one party holds your financial security (for lack of better words) in their hands. How can the waiter be your equal in that situation, when they might have to act just to ensure they can make the money they need?
Yes, I have also been thinking how a similar reward system would work without tipping. Just use a bonus system based on customer feedback. And the flow could be very similar to how it is with tipping.
It's not worse than tipping, but we've already normalized the obnoxious idea that every transaction needs to earn five stars. You know the places. The ones where they warn you "You're going to get a survey, if there is any reason why you don't feel like you can give us a 5 please tell me" (unsaid: Please sir -- they flog us for 4 star ratings). I can't imagine anyone I know not rating an Uber 5 stars, unless they were say, called a slur or the driver caused an accident.
So, I'm not sure how to best construct a system not open to "guilt gaming" in this way, but I would like to see one.
I do, it creates perverse incentives and dehumanizes people.
Imagine yourself catering someone and then having them talk about how great that is and wanting to pay you for that. Not in abstract but actually, in practice. It nails down the servant role, frankly. It feels abhorrent to me, even if you get numb to it over time.
From my perspective, tipping is a socially acceptable way to establish classes. Which itself is a terrible practice and the people catering you aren't your servants.
I used "catering" in this comment as a placeholder for any job that receives tips.
It really depends on the amount. In Belgium for instance there would be no tipping, but rounding up or adding one or two spare coins of change you still have on you in case the service was excellent.
It is like any job where people get a bonus because they have gone above and beyond.
Sorry for the delay, but yes, people have a tendency of rounding up if this is a possibility and it gets either charged to the person or put into a pot redistributed to everyone, depending on the local policy where everyone agrees beforehand.
This is normally on top of any bonuses for performance that the employees would get and their living wage which is guaranteed.
What's worse, it adds "emotional labor" (if I may borrow that term) to a staffer's job; while it's expected for staff to be representative of their company, it really feels like staff in tipping establishments have to put on a show and fake persona to optimize the tipping. But likewise, if you don't tip or don't do enough you (as a customer) are treated like shit.
I'm too autistic to be playing these games and figuring this shit out. I'm glad I don't live in the US.
I spent half my adult life in Ireland, had kids there, built a house there, etc and like to think that during said time I learned a few things and noticed changes. I do think part of it related to POS systems normalizing it. But it is certainly possible that our experiences differed. It was more common in Dublin 2 than in Offaly I'd say...
Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up. And I spent much more of my time extolling Ireland's virtues than complaining about it! It was surreal to be chatting with taxi drivers and trying to make the point that Ireland wasn't an utter kip.
> Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up.
In Spain we tend to have a similar attitude. Not really telling people to shut up, but if foreigners criticize our country we tend to get defensive, even if they are saying things we would agree with or say in a conversation between locals.
For me it's like common sense, just like you don't acknowledge family problems when you talk to people outside close family and friends, but it's probably just the culture I've been raised in.
Yeah, but when immigrants to my home country complained we generally agreed. I mean, why wouldn’t people experiencing the same system have similar complaints?
Oh, OK. I was thinking about foreigners that are here just for a visit. Immigrants get treated like one of us in this respect. In fact immigrants soon experience the horrors of our bureaucracy when they need to obtain their papers, and this typically creates opportunities to bond with the locals by venting about it :)
> Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up
Haha nail on head here. On behalf of my fellow Irish people - sorry!
America has spent the last century proclaiming itself the greatest country on earth, whilst simultaneously causing untold political and social problems in "lesser countries" to its own benefit.
Some deep rooted resentment when an American criticises a place is natural.
> Honestly something that was a bit galling was that the Irish would moan about Ireland morning day and night but the instant a foreigner made _any_ observation that wasn't rainbows and sunshine we were out of our lane and needed to shut up.
Not to be rude, but have you considered this may have been an issue with you and your attitude, rather than everyone you met, if even people who you seemed to think liked you couldn't stand you.
No, not really. My experience there was generally positive and I met lots of great people. That being said it’s fair to observe that different cultures have different traits. I have a friend here in the Netherlands from Roscommon and he gives out about Ireland -much- more than me, and when I mentioned we’d lived in Offaly he described it as “the beating heart of Irish begrudgery”, which checks out.
Anyway this conversation is a net negative to my day and I’m bowing out.
"Not to be rude" my hole. What @CalRobert said is 100% accurate - only we are allowed to criticise Ireland, and criticism is especially unwelcome from Brits and Yanks
I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries.
In my experience, the United States and England (not the entire UK) have the thinnest skin and some people will straight-up tell you to f-off home on the slightest criticism, especially on the subject of human rights or the expeditionary wars.
There are of course the usual suspects, the racists and "Pro-Irish" crowd, who will blame everything on immigrants and accept no criticism of their imagined Ireland, but this isn't true in general.
However, if you make grand pronouncements from a position of profound ignorance and overtly judge the life choices of your new compatriots - a speciality of the GP - you will find yourself alienated at best. This is true everywhere, not just Ireland.
> I disagree. Irish are _much more_ receptive to criticism of the country from immigrants than most countries.
Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures.
> Unless, of course, the criticism is someone making a personal observation about how they saw tipping culture expand during their time in Ireland, right? Then the appropriate response is to generalize that Americans love making ignorant comments about other cultures.
Unless they're factually incorrect, which is the case here.
Well, they say they did experience it. You cannot possibly know otherwise.
There’s also another commenter in this thread who says they’ve lived in Ireland for their entire life and says they’ve experienced the same thing.
Then, there’s you.
There are two likely explanations I can think of for your behavior here. 1, you are arguing in bad faith. 2, you are unable, for whatever reason, to understand that others might have a different experience in the world than you.
In either case, I don’t see any point in continuing this conversation. Have a nice day.
Nah, born and lived here my whole life and requests for tips are way up, from just eat to payment terminals asking for 10% for things that maybe would have been untipped in the past.
It's not like you get better or more food, or get the food faster since all that depends on the kitchen that isn't getting tipped directly.
It's pretty much them coming to your table to take your order. I'd much rather have a free burger or drink (the equivalent of what I could get instead of tipping) with the slow service than get my water refilled every 5 minutes.
> It's not like you get better or more food, or get the food faster since all that depends on the kitchen
Oh, trust me, go to a decent place, be a regular, tip decently (not even extravagantly), you absolutely get looked after. For instance, several of my usual lunch spots my usual fountain drink is often "water" on the bill.
I've had similar experiences in all-inclusive resorts in Mexico and the Carribean where they stock your fridge. Leave a few bucks in the door of the fridge, it'll be overflowing. If you don't tip, you get the minimum. Tip the bell man well at the beginning of the trip, and every time you call the front desk things show up at your room real quick.
It's likely not like this everywhere but I've become a regular at a few places over my life time and asked about this. At least where I've been, it is actually all tracked. Generally, at least at bars, the people coming in and tipping well, are people who come in often and spend a lot to begin with so over the long run they end up making it back anyway. And honestly, when you're new to a city/place and don't have a lot of friends/are single, and you walk in somewhere and are greeted by name and served your usual without asking it's a nice retreat.
> so over the long run they end up making it back anyway
Yeah, they lose on the unit, but they make it back on the volume!
How are you both new to a city/place and they already know your name/usual before you've even tipped? Do they send runners out ahead with the information?
You know what works even better? Being a friendly and nice person. It has the added bonus that when they greet you and "treat you better" (whatever you mean by that) next time you’ll know it’s not just because of your wallet.
- Tipping results in lower pay for certain genders and races.
- laws that protect employees don't apply to customers. Your boss can't make inappropriate comments and pay you less if you complain. But if a customer makes inappropriate comments, its perfectly legal for the customer to pay you less if you reject their advances.
I don’t think any of this is fixed by banning tips.
As I said, tipping shouldn’t be mandatory nor required for someone to make a living serving, frankly, relatively wealthy people and experience.
If someone owns a restaurant, I can show gratitude by coming more. If my clients like me, they can show gratitude by giving me more business. If a server does a great job independent of their employer, a tip is a good way of showing that.
(That said, if a group of employees has agreed to no tips, they should refuse them and one shouldn’t push.)
customers can legally tip different depending on race and genders, employers cannot.
> If a server does a great job independent of their employer, a tip is a good way of showing that.
The problem is customers perceive "great job" more often when the person is from a certain race or gender or body shape. This creates an inequitable environment.
When I visited the US I’ve noticed some waiters would treat you worse or just ignore if they found out you were a tourist, so when I could I would order something small and pay right away with tip, just to get basic service. So your comment makes 0 sense.
That feels disturbingly like a lite version of paying someone to be your friend. Maybe we should just all treat each other well (in both directions) and not reduce manners and social graces to a financial transaction.
I have, in the UK. Probably 95% of customers didn't tip. I didn't have any problems with this.
Why?
I was nice to people because that was my job, but when I've travelled to the US I have definitely seen entitled customers treat staff like shit and claiming it's their right because they were tipping.
Tipping as standard should go out the window, it just drives customers to be assholes.
I worked in a fast food restaurant here in the States, people tipped but usually not well. I wasn't pressed about it, I was getting a full minimum wage. Entitled customers didn't give me trouble for whatever reason, they seemed to size up my coworkers as softer targets.
> Why?
I was just curious about how OP's experience informed their perspective.
When visiting the States I have observed on a couple of occasions where a customer shouted at staff and used the threat of withholding a tip as leverage to be unreasonably nasty to wait staff.
The service industry in the US is awful, and the tipping culture is really toxic. I don't understand those that defend the American approach.
To be clear, I don't defend it. I'm mildly against it. Unfortunately I don't in it's at the root of entitled customer behavior in the States, I think there's a deeper cultural contempt for service workers. You'll see similar behavior towards workers who aren't tipped but who provide some sort of face-to-face service, like cashiers and teachers.
> Unfortunately I don't in it's at the root of entitled customer behavior in the States, I think there's a deeper cultural contempt for service workers.
Completely agree with this position. I didn't mean to say that removal of tipping would solve the problem, more that it is an enabler of toxic behaviour. The more opportunities provided, the more likely assholes will be emboldened causing a normalisation effect both in them, and others around them.
Something that has occurred to me is that I have sometimes been that asshole entitled customer, and as I've matured I've learned to remove myself from a situation when I feel the urge to yell at a service worker.
It has never been about the money really. The only exception I remember was when I was upset about the way my bank processed my paycheck and yelled about it in my early 20s (my bad, I didn't know how depositing checks at an ATM worked but I ought to have). But usually it's because I felt insecure or disrespected in some way (which wasn't, to my memory, reasonable. It wasn't what the kids call a "valid crash out".).
For instance, it really gets under my skin when I am talking to technical support on the phone and they try to blame the problem on my running Linux. Argh! If it was Linux I wouldn't need their help! I'd either fix it on my own or ask some help forum.
I don't know how much that translates to the larger phenomenon, I'm not even talking about face-to-face interactions anymore, but that's my two cents.
What's crazy is that you can so confidently claim "tipping is a thing of the past" when it's... not? You can think tipping should go away, that's a completely valid viewpoint. But your statement is just objectively wrong.
I see this a lot (not specific to HN) - some person doesn't like $THING, so they just declare that that thing is bad, or "a thing of the past," or whatever.
Or confidently declaring the _true_ motivations of companies/people, like they, the random internet person, for sure know why some company or a famous person are doing something, and express it as a statement of fact and an agreed upon common sense and not a speculation based on nothing.
Most seen on reddit but seems to be becoming commonplace on here as well.
"Horse riding is a thing of the past" is both clearly true and also wrong if you are being incredibly obtuse. The average person is not riding a horse, but there are still horse riders.
I see this a lot - some person doesn't like a phrase ("a thing of the past"), so they just misread it and take it clearly the wrong way.
Even among the incredibly predictable "omg USA so backward tipping lol" comments here, there are a lot admitting that tipping still exists for exceptional service in certain industries.
You won't find a single non-barista in the US who thinks it's reasonable for Starbucks to solicit 20% for someone pouring your coffee into a cup. But restaurants have tried the "don't tip our waiters" thing in the US and it doesn't work.
Yep, its called the Beauty Premium. There's evidence that being attractive leads to better job outcomes in most industries including higher starting salaries, more job offers, faster promotions, and better performance evaluations.
100% this! I hate how the main narrative it seems like Americans believe about tipping, especially among a certain set of privileged college-educated Democrat types, is that tipping is this virtuous practice that benefits the underclass so much, when really, it benefits restaurant owners most, and if any workers are better off under a tipping system, it's a small minority, like highly attractive white female servers in establishments that have rich clientele. Everyone else would be better off if prices (not a surcharge) went up once by 20% and restaurants spent that money on wages and abolished all tipping.
Anecdata, but I go to Taco Bell way more often than I should. There’s no tipping culture at Taco Bell, but the staff, at least at the one near my house, are always very nice to me and as far as I can tell my food is made with a sufficient amount of care.
When I do go to a restaurant that has tipping, people are usually nice to me as well, but I don’t feel like they’re really any nicer or better at their job than my local Taco Bell workers.
No, they're definitely more attentive for the tip, I just don't like it. If they're going to be extra nice, I don't want it to be for money. Felt nice going to other countries like Australia where the customer isn't always right but they still do their jobs.
Restaurant staff are still nice in Australia, and friendly.
They don't HAVE to be, but they also don't have to do a bunch of unnecessary stuff to play the tips game, like fill up water that's barely empty or check in on how you're going all the time.
Maybe people in America like a "service heavy" experience, and the only way to get it is tips?
> Maybe people in America like a "service heavy" experience, and the only way to get it is tips?
Interestingly enough, I find the service worse in the U.S. Part of the reason is that the tip system leads to waiters wasting time talking about a table, and waiters who aren't your own feeling like they don't have to do anything for you. It usually takes me 5-10 times longer to pay the check in the U.S. than it does in some other countries.
I wish restaurants started offering self service sections where you could order by phone and pick up the food yourself. Having to use waiters gives me the same feeling as when I drive through New Jersey and I'm not allowed to pump my own gas.
I think that’s pretty much the gist of it. People enjoy the diner-style pampering, and the only way to get that kind of service is if the employees are coerced to do it in order to get a living wage.
Happy employees who earn good salaries would not submit to ass-kissing and degrading work.
Knowing this is what makes the often terrible service in the Netherlands a bit more tolerable :)
They're doing the job for the money. They're relating to the customer both as part of their job, and as an actual human interaction. (Obviously the extent to which this is true varies a lot depending on the individuals involved and the context.) Believe it or not, sometimes people are genuinely friendly, even at work, and even when they're not receiving any extra compensation for going beyond the required level of politeness. Those interactions are, IMO, worth more than forced "friendliness" from someone who is simply looking to get as much money as they can out of me.
I don't fully believe this. There will be a category of staff for who the job is just a way to make money, sure, usually while they're also going to college/uni. But plenty are in the industry because it's their vocation, because they enjoy it, because they're people-persons, because they're good at it.
As an Australian who lived in America for 5 years - it’s bonkers to claim the service is better (or even as good) in Aus. It’s clearly more attentive in the states, anyone who says otherwise has an agenda.
Sometimes you don’t want good service - as in, you don’t want a server to talk to you. That’s a lot easier to find here.
Or they may have different values to you. I find American style surveillance services and false smiles pushing upsells to be the worst restaurant experience globally. I'd take any abrupt waiter over that.
Yeah, this exactly matches my experience visiting Sydney from the US, it was great. I'm not antisocial, in fact I enjoy talking to strangers, but it feels very wrong to pay them for it.
They are still paid to be polite and friendly, just not directly from you. It can also be a selection process because the ppl who do not smile enough have been fired or not taken for the job in the first place. Having a boss in these industries “encouraging“ employees to smile more is not unheard of. It makes sense that it feels better than paying directly to produce this outcome, but in a last analysis it is not very different.
It isn’t just employees. The manager/owner of the coffee shop I buy coffee from most mornings is very friendly - I’m sure part of this is just her personality, but it is also good business sense - there are lots of other places people can buy coffee instead, and no doubt her friendliness is one of the factors that keeps many of her regular customers coming back. And this is Australia, so no tips involved-it would feel weird and embarrassing even to offer one.
As an American, having traveled in Europe a few times and dined out a lot, I much prefer the culture of just leaving me alone and letting me signal the waiter to come over when I need something.
Anyone who has worked in a restaurant or bar can provide plenty of observational data that if you provide better service you will be tipped better. I would recommend trying out working as a server/bartender you will understand tipping a lot better.
Phone reps, of course, have the difficulty of not being in physical contact with you. The others, though, my grandparents actually would tip house cleaners. Would get annoyed if we left out cash in the hotel, as "you should only do that if you are wanting the help staff to have it. And then, you should do it in an obvious way so that they don't feel like they are stealing." I distinctly remember them writing notes and leaving them with a tip on the desk.
House cleaners and hotel help are not janitors, but all of our workplaces are cleaned by them. We don't tip them, or the front desk people at any doctor's office, or the traffic crossing guards at any school, or the EMTs at the hospital, or the ticket taker at a movie theater.
There's a huge list of people you interact with daily who don't get tax free tips. Why are they less valuable than restaurant workers? That was my question.
Fair, I left out that they also gifted janitors, but they did. Is not unheard of to send gifts to mail delivery staff. Basically, anyone you ever interacted with on a regular basis.
Coming from a country with no tipping at all, it was somewhat creepy how the people expecting tips acted when I visited the US for the first time. You can tell when friendliness is fake/forced, and living in a country without tipping you don't see it nearly as much. I felt a bit uncomfortable.
There’s tipping everywhere (more or less, there are some exceptions). But there’s just one country that I know of where 15% is ”no tip” because it’s the expected baseline, and 25% is a small tip because it’s 5-10% over the expected minimum so the actual ”tip” part of a 25% tip is actually less.
I tip 0-10% where I live. Just like most Americans tip 15-25% but the first 15 are just eaten by expectation. There is zero difference except that 1) my menu shows actual prices 2) wait staff have a living wage regardless of tips or how busy the restaurant was that day.
I've been to both, a lot, and I've not noticed any difference whatsoever. Good service is the norm everywhere, honestly, and the odd instance of bad service happens everywhere too.
Beyond that, I personally find that leveraging someone's economic desperation to coerce deference out of them is disgusting. Give me staff who have the option to walk out without material harm, and choose not to.
This statement is just not factual without some qualification. Where I live, and in the US in general, tipping is not a thing of the past. You can say you wish it was, you can say it should be, but what you said is not factual.
Tipping is a thing in Eastern (to be more accurate: Central) Europe too, but where I live, tipping is not taxed. Actually, let me be more accurate: people who pay with credit card always tip in cash, as there is no way to tip with a credit card[1]. :P If you buy anything with a credit card, the total amount must always be identical to the sum of the prices of the products, it can never be more, so cannot include tips[1], which forces people who tip to tip with cash.
Food deliveries (similar to Uber Eats in the US I suppose) have the option to tip, and 100% goes to the courier. 200 HUF (0.57 USD) is the most common amount (as per their website[2]). We do not use percentages.
"Cash is untaxed" is a universal rule; there's a food stall that only sells deep fried Vietnamese eggrolls (and has for decades), they prefer cash; in part because cash is untaxed and they may forget to document every sale on occasion, but also because they do relatively low amount transactions (<€10), the €0.25 transaction fee does add up for them.
It's also why "knowing a guy" can be useful, tradesmen coming in on their off hours to do a job for cash.
In my country (euro-land), transaction fees are often brought up by shopkeepers as a bogus excuse, but in real life banks offer plenty of percentage-only plans without fixed transaction fees.
Yeah, "knowing a guy" is very common here, as in, hey, I know a plumber, I know an electrician, I know a painter, and this and that. It is always cash with them, of course.
>>Actually, let me be more accurate: people who pay with credit card always tip in cash, as there is no way to tip with a credit card.
Eh? I don't know if you consider Poland eastern europe(I don't really), but I tip with a card all the time in Poland, you just ask "hey can I leave a tip on the card" and they bump up the amount by whatever you want to tip. And no, the amount doesn't then equal what's on the receipt - I don't know how they work it out internally, but frankly that's not my problem.
I tried tipping with card, and they told me that they can't "bump it up" (as in, they will get in trouble if they do). I suppose it depends on the place. I know for a fact that you can't tip with a credit card for parcel couriers. What I do not know for a fact is restaurants. So I suppose it varies. You tip doctors with cash, too. It is illegal to do so, but people do it and doctors expect it, it is just done more discretely.
I was not referring to Poland, but Hungary. What gave you the idea that I was referring to Poland? :P FWIW, I do speak Polish though, and I have many Polish friends.
>>What gave you the idea that I was referring to Poland?
I didn't have that idea, I'm just saying that in Poland I've never had any issues tipping with card and since you said "eastern europe" I wondered if you consider Poland eastern europe. That's all.
Well, people consider Hungary to be in Eastern Europe, but it actually is in Central Europe, and so is Poland.
I use "Eastern Europe" when I am referring to Hungary only because people typically think that Hungary is in Eastern Europe. Perhaps I should stop doing that and just use "Central Europe", since it is them who are incorrectly believing it is in Eastern Europe.
I'm from the UK and travel in the US a lot and US service is much better. I've never had to chase up the check or had to go and search for staff to serve me after sitting there for ten minutes. These are common occurrences in the UK for me.
Ideally, tipping wouldn't exist and everything would be priced in, but pragmatically, incentives grant extra benefits to both parties. Potential for more money for the server, better service (and the ability to punish bad service) for the customer.
(I know everyone making similar observations is getting voted down, so I appreciate I may simply be far off the bell curve on this and the majority experience the total opposite. But it's my reality.)
> I'm from the UK and travel in the US a lot and US service is much better. I've never had to chase up the check or had to go and search for staff to serve me after sitting there for ten minutes. These are common occurrences in the UK for me.
I've had these things in the US. In fact the service generally I've had is all for show, people being really "fake nice" and / or overbearing but then forgetting drinks or food items you ordered.
At least in the UK you can genuinely not tip someone without worrying about them being unable make rent..
I’ve had fantastic service in countries where tipping is not the norm. I’ve had atrocious service in the US. UK service may be worse, but I doubt tipping is the reason for it.
Good service is common in industries where tipping doesn’t happen. What makes restaurants special that their workers can’t provide good service if all of their pay comes from their employer just like everyone else’s?
> and have the restaurant pay their people for their work.
For that, you need the restaurant employees to be organized in a strong, independent, non-corrupt union; or a highly-upstanding restaurant owner/manager.
The latter is sometimes the case, but often/usually - not.
So, former is rarely the case, I'm afraid, because working-class consciousness in many countries is lacking; and forming a union is hard; and restaurant staff have a lot of churn, so by the time you get the idea to do this, or have started work on it, you might be going elsewhere.
But regular restaurant clients taking owners to task about wages is definitely a thing to consider...
“Tipping is a thing of the past” is just a completely false statement, given it’s the norm in the most economically powerful country in the world and not at all u heard of elsewhere (food delivery in many countries, high end restaurants in the UK and elsewhere, etc.) If we’re being generous we can call the claim is vs. ought distinction, except the phrasing doesn’t even leave room for the ought interpretation. It’s just a falsehood (were it was true).
If you’re in the US and refuse to tip, you should consider only eating out at places that pay more than the tipped minimum wage (in many states still $2.13 an hour). If you’re going to protest with your wallet, hurt the owners and not the staff.
Not sure you know what tipping is, but it's not paying for the meal. It's paying for the service.
1. I like being able to pay for better service
2. Despite what people like to think, everywhere in the world has appreciated tips. I've never had a waiter refuse extra money. Literally dozens of countries, you get better service if you tip.
The cost of a ”meal” in a restaurant is: rent, wages (for chefs, managers, wait staff, etc) ingredients, profit margin, taxes and likely a dozen other things.
Taking one of these items out of the cost and trying to charge it separately is a strange practice.
You're asking how a tip can influence a server, if they don't know it's coming. But in America they do know it's coming, at least, there is a cultural norm of tipping being expected. So it makes sense that a server would do what it takes, to make sure that it happens.
So in other words, you'd still get good service without tipping at all in places like the US. Granted, it might be awkward when it comes time to leave, and if they'd recognize you, you may not want to go back.
Yes, there are antisocial people who disregard social norms. But there are enough people who play along to have a major impact on how service providers behave.
Huh? The OP asked how a tip could influence the service, if it came after the service was delivered. It's pretty easy to understand, when a tip is the cultural norm.
Not sure where you have (or haven't been), but I've been to several countries where I've tried to tip, and it's confused or even embarrassed the staff. They insisted I take my change. Granted, this was 15-20 years ago, and unfortunately tipping has become more pervasive, not less, so maybe if I were to revisit those places, things would be different.
But I do know this is still the case in Japan. Some Japanese service workers or small business owners will even be insulted if you try to tip.
Having just come back to the States from a trip to Europe — sheesh, I hope not. The service at restaurants everywhere in Europe was at best mediocre, and typically god-awful. Incentivizing good service is good.
Yes, yes, "but the price on the menu says..." Whatever. If you're in the U.S., it's normalized that the price you actually pay is 20% higher, assuming they treat you well. Restaurants don't typically print the tax on their menus either, and yet no one tears their hair out over having to pay sales tax, and various city taxes, etc etc.
The service is so, so much better in the U.S. because of tipping. Tipping culture is good.
Tipping sucks and your taxes suck too. When I see that something costs 15€ on the menu then I expect to pay 15€ and nothing more. How can you be happy about surprise taxes? How can you plan your spending when you don't see how much something costs and you still think this is superior?
Service is quite good in Europe if you ignore the touristy areas. We’re also not into that fake-smiling thing, so maybe that can be seen by an American as “bad service”.
I don't care about smiling. I care that when I want to leave, I can pay quickly. In Europe, it's incredibly slow, pretty much everywhere, including random rural towns in the middle of nowhere, including for random other patrons who are locals. The best service I ever witnessed in Europe was like, maybe mid-tier American fast casual level: aka, mediocre.
Ah that's the difference, then. You equate good service with bringing the check immediately. I'm afraid not doing that isn't bad service, it's just a cultural difference that you have to get used to when you travel sometimes.
Having said that, on the occasion when I've been in places like that and I really was in a hurry, no one has looked at my funny or seem put out when I've flagged someone down to ask for the check.
Bringing the check immediately is associated with fast food, and overcrowded touristy places that are rushing customers to leave. Places that want to be fancy act like you're there to hang out, not to just eat and leave.
It is sometimes absurd. In the UK there's an often an extra step of "oh, you're paying by card? let me go back and bring the card reader". Some places have just one reader shared among all waiting staff, so you're not going to get it faster unless you tip enough to make the staff wrestle for it.
I like the Japanese style the best — there's a cashier by the exit.
> I care that when I want to leave, I can pay quickly. In Europe, it's incredibly slow
Maybe when you come to Europe adjust to the culture. In Europe you don't eat with the clock in your hand so you can run off too the next meeting while you're still chewing. This isn't bad service, it's part of eating out that you don't storm off and take your time.
An ordinary European restaurant doesn't work with the tempo of a McDonalds, that's a feature and not a bug.
Maybe when you come to Europe adjust to the culture.
We're in the middle of a thread in which hundreds of Europeans are complaining about American culture, which is to tip at restaurants. In fact, the original post I responded to was:
It’s crazy that this still happens in the US.
Tipping is a thing of the past. Pay for your meal and have the restaurant pay their people for their work. End of story.
I think it's a little ironic that when an American complains about European culture — which is to be slow — suddenly there's a bunch of tut-tutting from Europeans about "adjust to the culture" (and you're not the only one!).
We're in a thread where people are debating the relative advantages of different cultural practices. I think America's practice of tipping has distinct advantages that make it better. And no, you're not "eating with the clock in your hand' or whatever in America: is just that when you want the check, you get it.
I dunno, I was in Europe (Belgium and France) last summer, and I thought the service was generally excellent. A bit slower in France, perhaps, than in the US, but I chalked that up to people just generally not being in as much of a hurry as they can be in the US. (And hell, there are plenty of places in the US where service is slower than I'd like.)
We tend to avoid touristy areas, though, when we travel, so maybe that explains the better service. If I had to work in a service job that caters to tourists, I'd probably be less happy too.
On the other hand, when I visited US on a work trip we've had an absolutely awful service at a restaurant, like the waiter was genuienly rude to us, and at the end I said ok, well, this was awful, I guess we're not leaving a tip then - and our American host laughed and said no, you still have to leave a tip. Why? Because it would be rude not to. And these people earn very little so you have to leave a tip. But.....the service was bad? Why would we tip? "because you have to".
That's nonsense. In the UK if the service is good I leave a tip. If it isn't then I don't. From my (limited) experience in the US it looks like you have to tip regardless. If that's the tipping culture then that culture is rotten.
>>The service is so, so much better in the U.S. because of tipping.
Honest question - do you consider waiters who ask you if you need anything every 2 minutes "good"?
>> The service at restaurants everywhere in Europe was at best mediocre
What's your opinion on restaurants in Poland? Was the service better or worse than in Spain? How was it compared to Czechia and Slovakia?
I'd expect all prices to include taxes, be it restaurants or other shops. Everything else is just making it harder for the customer for no reason at all. What you see is what you pay.
What can you do in PyCharm that you cannot do in VS Code? I recently switched from PyCharm to VS Code to maintain a project with 250k LoC in Python (Django) and VS Code has been like a breath of fresh air. While you may need to install some plugins to get it "just right", it's more extensible. PyCharm is more "batteries included", and maybe that's the rub here.
pyrefly is not tied to vscode? Also please try to be more considerate of people preferences, and pycharm is not strictly better. Remote dev on vscode is very convenient for me, should I go on the Internet saying that pycharm is trash? No
I’m not saying VS Code is trash but I think it’s closer to a text editor than an IDE. I even use it for some things non python but I remain curious to the fact why people use it for python.
It might not be tied to VS Code but the title clearly says “New […] IDE experience for…” which is why I commented. I had hoped to see something for PyCharm or even a new IDE.
I'm literally working on this particular problem. Locally-run server; browser-based interface instead of TUI/CLI; connects to all the major model APIs; many, many quality of life and feature improvements over other tools that hook into your browser.
Drop me a line (see profile) if you're interested in beta testing it when it's out.
I find that 2.5 Pro has a higher ceiling of understanding, while Claude writes more maintainable code with better comments. If we want to combine them... well, it should be easier to fix 2.5 than Claude. That said, neither is there yet.
Currently Claude Code is a big value-add for Claude. Google has nothing equivalent; aider requires far more manual work.
But with my app: you can install the host anywhere and connect to it securely (via SSH forwarding or private VPN or what have you) so that workflow definitely still works!
OpenAi has a version called Codex that has support. It's lacking in a few features like MCP right now and the TUI isn't there yet, but interestingly they are building a Rust version (it's all open source) that seems to include MCP support and looks significantly higher quality. I'd bet within the next few weeks there will be a high quality claude code alternative.
What is the appeal of Bluesky? I'm surprised to see how much traction it has, when Mastodon already exists and works quite well technically - it seems that Bluesky is simply better at marketing?
It's a much better protocol in practice, in my view.
Mastodon is server/instance centric and permanently anchors your identity to a given server. On Bluesky, you can use any domain you control DNS for as your handle, since content hosting and identity management are decoupled at the protocol layer.
On top of that, hosting is also decoupled from aggregation/discovery, which allows for things like global search that are intrinsically hard on Mastodon.
> Mastodon is server/instance centric and permanently anchors your identity to a given server. On Bluesky, you can use any domain you control DNS for as your handle, since content hosting and identity management are decoupled at the protocol layer.
What does this mean? I can host my own fediverse instance, and have, three times.
It means that your identity is tied to the server. If you ever got tired of running your server and decided to just use someone else's server, you can not just bring your keys and make a DNS change to point to the new place.
Just because there isn't such a mechanism in use currently, doesn't mean that there's something preventing ActivityPub actors using the same type of DNS pointing to DID, or IRI mechanism ATProtocol is using.
There are some extensions proposed, but to this day all AP actors are controlled by the server. No ActivityPub software today is built in a way where the client can provide their own keys. They are all generated in the server.
Even the "Client-to-Server" AP spec is written in a way where the "client" does not interact with the outside web, but always initiates every interaction through the outbox hosted by the server.
I'm not saying this just for pedantry. I'm saying this because I actually wrote a server that implements ActivityPub according to the spec [0], and realized that identity portability is not possible unless you deliberately break away from the AP spec.
I am not convinced that it can't be done. (Saying this also as someone that wrote a spec compliant ActivityPub server: https://github.com/mariusor/fedbox)
Nothing says you can't extend an actor to provide for a did: based identity which gets stored wherever you want to. I think the main dev of Mitra[1] is someone that's exploring very strongly in this direction.
Allowing for extensions to the current ActivityPub/ActivityStreams vocabulary is one of the tenants of the specification. Nothing says everyone must implement everything.
I don't see how this could be done in a backwards compatible way.
How would incompatible servers know to trust a server foo.com to publish posts for an account bar.com? How would they know where to look for bar.com's posts when their users search for it?
We are talking about ActivityPub tying identity to the server. ATProto is designed from the ground to separate user data from your identity (through its Personal Data Servers), so the answer to your question is "many. There are many servers out there."
Bluesky has many issues (and I for one still think it has fundamental flaws that still make me prefer AP), but identity coupling is not one of them.
I think i just don't understand the distinction. I have a domain, so i set up my domain so i have an identity on bluesky. I'm with you on that part.
and then what? i can take my identity and do what with it? change PDS? but bluesky itself shows everyone that i am the same person?
i didn't move the goalposts, i just don't get the distinction everyone is making here with "identity", of course if i prove i own a domain i can verify, but i can do that on mastodon, too, I can add the below to my domain that will checkmark my username on mastodon. I assume if i move servers and want people to follow me, i will just do the same on that server, too; they know it's me because the service says so.
that is all i have to do to prove i own that username on that instance - put that on a domain i own and add it to one of the user editable fields on my public profile.
so maybe you understand my confusion. i never received a bluesky invite nor do i want to pay (a couple mentions here of paying for it).
> Verifying your identity on Mastodon is for everyone. Based on open web standards, now and forever free. All you need is a personal website that people recognize you by. When you link to this website from your profile, we will check that the website links back to your profile and show a visual indicator on it. The link on your website can be invisible. The important part is rel="me" which prevents impersonation on websites with user-generated content. You can even use a link tag in the header of the page instead of <a>, but the HTML must be accessible without executing JavaScript.
i can also export all my followers, so when i join a new instance, i can direct message them all and let them know i've moved, and they can see it's the same person because the service says so, because i own the same domain.
> i can also export all my followers, so when i join a new instance, i can direct message them all and let them know i've moved
If ActivityPub had actually portable identities, you would be able to move instances without losing/moving your handle.
You as an user might have moved servers, but your identity did not.
How can we make an analogy? Let's say that you want to have a domain and you are hosting it on some cheap VPS provider. You just take your data, upload to their server and point the domain to their IP address. Let's say that six months later the cheap VPS goes down and you completely lose access to the server. You want to move. What do you do? You sign up to another VPS provider, upload your data (assuming you have backups) and you simply change the DNS to point to the IP address of the new server.
If you want to do that anything like that with ActivityPub, you can only do it at the server level. If you are a "mere" user on instance mastodon.one you do not own, you are at the mercy of the admin. You can not take "genewitch@mastodon.one" and use it as a handle anywhere else. Conversely, you can not go to mastodon.social and sign up with your own domain or any other method of authentication. The only way they can serve anything for you is if you use the handle they assigned you.
With ATProto, identity is based on DIDs (decentralized identifiers), so you can change your PDS without having to change your identity. You can have a handle under your own control and tell Bluesky to host it for you, and you don't need to ask permission to them in case you change your mind and decide to move elsewhere.
Can and Must are two different things. Wikipedia has a website, and owns the domain to that website. Their domain is the way they verifiy themselves on Bluesky. But they don't have a reason to run an instance, so they don't run one, and never will.
Had enough of shitty self hosted mastodon servers getting linked, makes me wary to click any mastodon link because they are so likely to be dead
Imo that's a complete killer to adoption. The vibe people get from it is that it's always down, they don't care that "oh just switch to another shard" that's too much effort
Yeah, it should be content addressable and replicated by Favourite (Like) similarly how IPFS pining works, then your post would die when the last hoarder forgets about it.
Bluesky/AT Protocol hits a much better balance of mostly decentralized while having an intuitive user experience.
On the other hand, ask the average social media user to try to do the below tasks on Mastodon/ActivityPub, and you'll quickly see how half-baked and disjointed of a user experience it is.
- Search for posts or a user.
- Interact with a Mastodon post that's on a different instance than the one they're registered to.
- Figure out what to do if one day, they wake up and their instance has shut down.
I also find Bluesky's underlying tech interesting. The more i looked into Mastodon the less interesting it felt. I especially didn't like that as a small Mastodon instance i'd struggle to get my updates fed into the larger instances and struggle to get updates as quickly. Instances prioritized updates to/from larger instances.
This was all quite early though and i'm sure i misunderstood things. Just answering the question as i personally perceived Mastodon.
On the non-tech side, i find Bluesky's model for moderation to be really neat. I hope it continues to expand in features/implementations.
Now, Bluesky has this great API that allows you to do cool automated things on top of it.
Twitter had it too, but they decided in the last 2, maybe 3 years, to play with the API so many times that there are no new coding tutorials that use Twitter API as an example. So except social media platforms, there are probably no more tools built on top of Twitter API as they damaged their reputation among developers. And they deserve it being so unfriendly towards developers.
Mastodon is fragmented by design, federation is mostly theoretical even if mastodon.social displays many other instances' content and lets you interact with it.
You can't search across instances nor can you (afaik) maintain identity across them.
Bluesky implements algorithmic feeds so content is easier to find. Mastodon mostly is original Twitter model - you have to follow accounts yourself. It's significant friction and filters 90% of normal people.
Centralised so easy to use. Why don't more people use PGP and web of trust? Convenience and security rarely align, and people will choose convenience every time.
I just disabled it today. I have issues searching for local stuff and the other thing - it works poorly with Safari, which is of course not their fault.
On iOS at least, Apple does not allow custom search engines in Safari and does not list kagi. So the kagi app redirects requests to a different one. Feels gross and dumb.
