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For others, here's the paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2507.00002

Hi @tabbott I've been meaning to pass this feedback on for 5 months, and I hope it comes across in the spirit it's meant.

I tried Zulip (cloud offering) with some techie/designery friends, so we should have been right at home but... the desktop app on macOS and the web app was visually unappealing and clunky, and we ended up going back to a paid Slack plan.

I looked for docs on how to theme Zulip (so I could contribute), or for existing theme packs that would soften the transition but found neither.

tl;dr: The functionality was good (Love the threading!) but the UI feels like the 2000s came calling. Some UI polish would go a long way.


My feelings as well.


This reminds me of a SaaS that existed 15+ years ago for PCI-DSS compliance. It did exactly that: you had it tokenize and store the sensitive data, and then you proxied your requests via it, and it inserted them into the request. It was a very neat way to get around storing data yourself.

I cannot remember what the platform was called, let me know if you do.


There are multiple companies doing that. I was using one a few years ago, also don't remember the name, haha.

I guess it's an obvious thing to sell, if you go through the process of PCI-DSS compliance. We were definitely considering splitting the company to a part that can handle these data and the rest of the business. The first part could then offer the service to other business, too.


Why not use CSS without the custom element? From this post I don't see the benefit of using <swim-lanes> over <section class="swim-lanes"> for example.


Arguably, that would be misuse of the semantic meaning of "section." While <section> is nearly as generic as <div>, they should always have a heading of their own. The author's <swim-lane> already has a nested <section> with its own <h2>, but the <swim-lane> itself doesn't get (or need) its own even-higher heading.

And since that would drive us to <div>, I don't see any value in <div class="swim-lanes"> over <swim-lanes>.


It is unfortunate that you cannot simply move a block of HTML elsewhere where the context is otherwise perfectly suitable but expected heading level is different[0].

Section-relative headings were briefly part of the spec but quickly got removed. As it stands, I would not consider any block of HTML with an <hX> element portable.

[0] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...


Web components come with additional complexity, heavy use of custom element definitions are more complicated to manage.

It’s more than just an aesthetic preference

But if you’re not really using web components it’s harmless but it’s a bit odd and pointless.


HTML had custom elements before Web Components (the complex modern JavaScript & Shadow DOM thing) came into being. https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-custom-elements-20160523/


In case you’ve forgotten this is a thread on an article about web components.

If the underlying premise of your point was entirely independent of web components you’ve done pretty poor job of communicating it.

So you actually do that? Use custom elements without web components instead of using classes? Are you using in something like react with custom elements foregoing type safety to avoid a div element? Or is this just in plain HTML? How many custom elements does your typical web project have?

Or are you fixating on an irrelevant technicality to make an irrelevant point?


...?

The article is literally about not using web components. FTA:

> What would happen if we took the ideas of HTML Web Components and skipped all the JavaScript? [...] Okay great, we styled some HTML nested inside a custom element.


Feel free to reread the article title.

Let’s not pretend like your original point here was they were barely using features of web components correctly, like the parent of this thread was clearly implying.


A handful of benefits:

1. Specificity - swim-line.buttons vs .swin-lines.buttons vs .buttons.swim-lanes. 2. Future pathing - Maybe you don't need a Web Component today, but you might need one tomorrow. 3. Cleaner - <swim-lane /> is just better than <div class="swim-lane" />


> Specificity

:where() gives you zero specificity.

> Future pathing

Sounds like premature optimization. And I say this as someone who has been using custom elements and web components in production since 2016. In fact one of my products offers WCs for our customers:

https://docs.wavekit.app/web-components-wavekit-audio/

> Cleaner

Debatable. Personally I find it cleaner to simply rely on CSS to solve something rather a combination of CSS, JS, and some custom markup.


1. ... I do not understand what you mean.

2. One person's "premature optimization" is someone else's "this was literally something I dealt with this week."

3. This method relies on CSS and HTML, just as any other styling solution would.


2. Yet it was you who said “future” in the first place…


"Clean" is the biggest lie in software development. It's an aesthetic opinion dressed up as objective fact. You think components are clean, someone else thinks classes are clean, and neither of you are wrong, except for believing that "clean" is a property of the code and not something entirely in your own mind.


I'm going to start using this logic whenever my wife talks about my office.


If you're not actually getting anything semantically useful out of the element, then you may as well use a custom element.

Also by using a custom element instead of a class, you're saying this isn't anything else other than what I say it is.

It's not a <section class="swim-lanes">, it's not a <form class="swim-lanes">, it's not a <blockquote class="swim-lanes">, it's a <swim-lanes>.

If you make something only a class, people end up misusing it in odd places.


> What good use cases would you see for grid lanes today?

Fully responsive layouts, where sidebar content is interleaved with page content on small screens, but in a sidebar on larger screens.

Demo: https://codepen.io/pbowyer/pen/raLBVaV

Reordering the content on larger screens would be the icing on the cake but for now I'll take just doing it.

CSS Grid didn't solve this, as it added gaps: https://codepen.io/pbowyer/pen/azNarbZ

And using named grid-template-areas stacks the items you move to the sidebar on top of each other, so you only see one of them at a time. Eventualy I hope that https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9098 will land and we'll be able to use this saner way to do it.


> I saw people on reddit say that Opus 4.5 will hit that $20 limit after a 1-3 prompts

That's people doing real-vibe coding prompts, like "Build me a music player with...". I'm using the $20 Codex plan and with getting it to plan first and then executing (in the same way I, an experienced dev would instruct a junior) haven't even managed to exhaust my 5-hour window limits, let alone the weekly limit.

Also if you keep an eye on it and kill it if it goes in the wrong direction you save plenty of tokens vs letting it go off on one. I wasted a bunch when Codex took 25 minutes(!) to install one package because something went wrong and instead of stopping and asking it decided to "problem solve" on its own.


I'm pleased they rename it because grid-lanes opens up more than masonry layouts.

I've been waiting to be able to have a fully responsive layout (where interleave sidebar content in with the page content on small screens, but have it in a sidebar on larger screens) without using any JavaScript, and this finally makes it possible.

Demo: https://codepen.io/pbowyer/pen/raLBVaV

Previous comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46228993


I think I've asked this before on HN but is there a language-independent test format? There are multiple libraries (think date/time manipulation for a good example) where the tests should be the same across all languages, but every library has developed its own test suite.

Having a standard test input/output format would let test definitions be shared between libraries.




Maybe tape?


> Part of our interview process is a take-home where we ask candidates to build the fastest version of a pipeline they possibly can. People usually use C++ or Julia. All of the fastest answers are in Julia.

It would be fun if you could share a similar pipeline problem to your take-home (I know you can't share what's in your interview). I started off in scientific Python in 2003 and like noodling around with new programming languages, and it's great to have challenges like this to work through. I enjoyed the 1BRC problem in 2024.


The closest publicly available problem I can think of is the 1 billion rows challenge. It's got a bigger dataset, but with somewhat simpler statistics – though the core engineering challenges are very similar.

https://github.com/gunnarmorling/1brc


> Okay, you may want to do "responsive" design, but you have the semantic layout fixed, therefore you try and contort a styling engine into pretending to be a layout engine when in reality it is three stylesheets in a trenchoat.

I need to write this up properly, but one of my bugbears with responsive design is that it became normalised to push the sidebar down below the content on small screens. And if you didn't have a sidebar, to interweave everything in the content no matter what screensize you were viewing on.

What I want is a way to interleave content and asides on small screens, and pull them out into 1+ other regions on larger screens. Reordering the content on larger screens would be the icing on the cake but for now I'll take just doing it.

This CSS Grid approach adds gaps: https://codepen.io/pbowyer/pen/azNarbZ

Using named grid-template-areas stacks the items you move to the sidebar on top of each other, so you only see one of them.

'Good' old floats get most of the way, but put the item in the sidebar exactly where it falls. Plus they're a pain to work with overall: https://codepen.io/pbowyer/pen/jEqdJgP


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