Saved me a lot of typing.

This is one of the reasons I will switch from Ubuntu back to Debian. Any Ubuntu tutorial will work for Debian. The laptop I am on today will be my last Ubuntu install.

way ahead of what? not github/lab

Yeah... I can't believe some of the people commenting here. When there's an article about China, and there's comments in defense of the CCP, we suspect trolls. But my experiences with every single Atlassian product are so bad that I can't help myself thinking that there's some sort of troll army at work here from the Atlassian Marketing department.

Or my experiences with Atlassian have just been non-representatively bad.

Or those people work in jobs where the standards are just disappointingly low.

Having read through all the comments, I just don't know anymore.

Can’t speak for their other products but Bitbucket had free private repos first.

Now that I have a bunch of personal projects there, there’s no reason to switch. In 10 years the service was only down a couple of times. And I like the Web UI - I don’t think GitHub’s Web UI is any better.

So my experience using Bitbucket hasn’t been like living under the CCP. Maybe if I tried Jira I’d think differently?

Maybe that's why they hired so many people. An army of "devs" to market their products.

not supposedly, it is.

I actually find postman quite useful for the work I do (heavily api-related) - if you work in that space, what other tools would you recommend instead?

Honestly? Jupyterlab with python and requests.

It'll do more, with richer libraries, and an obvious path towards automation into CI/CD.

IMO Postman is a good tool. On alternatives though, https://httpie.io/ is pretty nice too.

I do work in that space. I build APIs and I use them. I built a springdoc for php so I know a bit about what I am talking about: https://github.com/cnizzardini/cakephp-swagger-bake

The Postman UX is not good on it. It's easy to get lost in tabs, they should ditch the tabs and categorize requests under the actual endpoint. There is also no way to easily save like requests and give them better names that is also searchable. It's also built on electron which means its slow and clunky.

There is nothing good in this space. Swagger would do it if they let you save requests to local browser storage and just added a history dropdown to the endpoints. I use swagger and save common requests to a file system and open them in sublime. if its just JSON payloads I am working with it does the job.

The problem I've had with Postman is the sharing between team members. Everyone needs to add new requests, edit (locally) but sometimes sav the edits back to the collection.

Someone has to modify the auth script and have it update for everyone.

I thought this is what the tool is designed for, but it's been a nightmare. Team members have to wipe their environment and start again regularly. I want to think that we've completely mucked up using it but I'm not sure it's us and not the tool.

I use Postman all the time for work and it is definitely useful.

But it seems to be getting worse not better as they tack on more features and make it more complicated.

It seems like it's been years since they added anything I need and instead it has just gotten harder to use due to extra fluff. And it's buggier than it's ever been.

Apparently, they decided that selling merch is more important than implementing gRPC support.

I use insomnia after the stunt postman pulled with pricing.

Insomnia seems like a good replacement for web devs who don't want to rely on proprietary tools as part of their core workflow, as well.

I like HTTPie and HTTPie/http-prompt, too, although I wish they had more secure storage for cookies.

I'm actually okay with Jira. I can't understand why they don't address performance, but I can roll with it because its not that abysmal. I honestly haven't seen something much better out there so it is what it is. It's confluence that I absolutely hate, thats where the performance and generally sad state of the UX gets to me. Bitbucket is even worse, but I had forgotten about its existence until recently because the company I now work for uses that clunky POS. There are good alternatives to those products, but somehow companies get roped into that garbage because they are already using Jira.

How can Atlassian have all that staff and such shit products?

Edit: I know the answer because I've been a company that did all of this. Build new shit and don't focus on the main product, then lay off your staff.

I frankly don't understand how people come to like confluence. It's completely unintuitive to navigate, and the main way of avoiding the need for navigation- search- is completely broken as well. It frequently just does not find articles I know are there- I've habitually searched for the title of a page I needed without realising it's the one I was on, and confluence search told me it didn't exist! It's a pain to work with.

Bitbucket is just entirely forgetful, I'm not surprised you have. I found it slow and cumbersome to use.

I'll add another highlight to the atlassian experience: their CI product, bamboo. Also very cumbersome to use. To give one example, if you are debugging a pipeline and want to run just some tests, you have to individually navigate to each test's page and settings subpage to click it on or off- so with a healthy number of tests, you'll really start to notice those slow page loads! (I recommend automating this task with selenium).

I personally dislike jira, but as they say: democracy is the worst form of government except for all the other forms that have been tried from time to time.

Totally agree. Using their products is just like talking to my grandfather who is already 95 years old.

I had to be very very patient and get ready for repeating something if needed.

Their stuff just doesn't scale because they have unscalable software architectures and have never gotten past that.

I'll say it, it sucks and its slow. The company I started at recently uses it and I hate it so much. Scrolling through a PR, viewing comments in a PR, adding comments in a PR, its all so clunky and GH Actions destroys BB pipelines. It's crap.

Sure, it's not github, I wasn't claiming that.

But it's good to have competition. Can you imagine if there was only one cell phone provider? Even a subpar competitor in the space can prevent people from being held captive. If bitbucket didn't exist, Microsoft might start charging users per repo for all we know

I have many a times shouted at my computer over the stupidity that is Bitbucket. And I honestly cannot believe or understand that people at Atlassian are using it themselves. I hate the term dogfooding, but how often do these people have to walk into the same walls that I walk into, before they go and improve a thing?

Sure, I get it, they're working on enterprise features that make them (more) money. But then don't have the audacity to present me an NPS survey to see how incredibly happy I am with their product. Ugh.

Atlassian is competing with GitHub and you can't understand why they would ban it?

Don't forget the way revising changes is not a first class thing or tracking comments. Gerrit is so much better

yes we could go on.

You don't think AI can improve in those regards? I highly disagree, its not this decade or even the next, but I wouldn't be surprised if things begin changing sometime in the 2040s. A decade I will be nearing retirement in but still working.

Some years ago (perhaps 2015) I told a non-programmer that MOST programmers would be obsolete by the end of the century because of AI. Surprisingly he scoffed saying there is no way AI will be able to handle all those business edge cases. The stuff in the article is pretty basic and a long way from complex business logic, but we are on our way. I just hope business application developers like myself can survive until retirement, which for me is sometime around 2050. I am getting less optimistic.

What’s a business application developer?

Someone who can be replaced by AI it sounds like

It's the only reason I clicked on this.