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In Australia the penalty is 1% of your income (or more) https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Medicare-levy/Medicare-le...

This makes it a no-brainer for anyone earning over ~$90k to get health insurance (as it's cheaper than not having it).

Yet it doesn't force low income earners into having private health insurance: they fall through to the safety net of the public healthcare system.

It's not a perfect solution; but it's perhaps slightly better than what the USA has at the moment?



> perhaps slightly better than what the USA has at the moment?

Pretty much anything would be. Health care in Italy was better than in the US, and that's saying something - Italy is a nice place, but not always run that well.

A more market-based system might be better too as at least for some things there might be some downward pressure on prices.

The current system (including pre-Obamacare in that as well) just sucks.


When the WHO ranked the world's health care systems in 2000, Italy was actually the second best in the world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_rank...

That was 16 years ago, yes, but the country wasn't run any better than it is now.


Random personal anecdote. When I was a teenager, my family took a trip to Europe. This was summer of 1999, IIRC. Anyways, near the end of the trip, when we were in Italy, my dad came down with a cough and sore throat. Rather than try to gut it out for another week and then have to fly back to the US sick, we decided to try to find a doctor.

After consulting with the front desk at our hotel, we were directed to a small clinic a few blocks away. Being that it was evening, we were surprised they were open and even more surprised to be seen reasonably quickly (it was less than an hour, less than I usually wait at a clinic here in the US).

We were seen by a doctor who conducted the very typical medical exam. We mimed our way through it, and a prescription for an antibiotic was doled out. When we went to pay, we were waved away. "No money" they said, in broken English. They also gave us simple directions to a nearby pharmacy where we could get the prescription filled.

We walked over to the pharmacy, presented the pharmacist with the prescription. After waiting a few minutes, he came back with the pills. There was a cost for this, but I remember it being very cheap. Like a couple euro.

The whole thing, from start to finish, was less than 3 hours and only cost us whatever the antibiotics cost. Frankly, our biggest problem with the whole experience was the language barrier. Dad knew some French and I knew extremely basic Spanish and could puzzle out most things given enough time, but nowhere near close enough for a complex interaction such as seeing a doctor in Italian.

Fast forward 17 years (this happened to me last week). I'm visiting family in Tennessee and come down with the same sore throat and cough.

First, I have to find a clinic that accepts my out-of-state insurance. Then, I have to get there when they open because experience with these things has taught me that if I'm not there when they open I'm waiting a few hours. Fill out the 5 pages of forms. Pay a $30 co-pay before I even go back to see a doctor. And then STILL wait 2 hours to be seen. After the same cursory exam, the same prescription for antibiotics is doled out.

Walk down the road to the pharmacy and get it filled, waiting 45 minutes. Another $10. The whole thing from start to finish was probably 4 hours and cost me $40 out of pocket. No idea how much they billed my insurance yet.

The experience we had in Italy made a big impression on me. Even as a 17 year old, I walked away from that experience wondering why our system in the US is so broken. Surely we can do better.


When I first started reading about American health care being a foreigner I saw a persistent argument that in single-payer system "people will die in lines". Yet here in the United States the lines in medical institutions are greater than anything I've seen abroad, open slot for appointment with a doctor in one month is a usual deal.

And why can't I buy antibiotics without a prescription. Don't I have a right to heal myself?


And why can't I buy antibiotics without a prescription. Don't I have a right to heal myself?

Misuse and overuse of antibiotics is a huge global problem. Common bacteria are developing resistance, and the reason is the overexposure to antibiotics due to agricultural and medical overuse. If things continue like this, soon we'll have people dying of tuberculosis again in developed countries.

If people can buy antibiotics without a prescription, they tend to take short treatments for random flu-related symptoms. This is doubly bad: the antibiotic doesn't do anything against the viral infection, and unrelated bacteria will be exposed to a weak antibiotic and be able to develop resistance.


This is a good point, but isn't it the agriculture which mainly drives the overexposure? Even if it isn't I doubt that this is a reason why antibiotics are prescription-only. Almost every other group of pharmaceuticals in the US is also restricted.


> When I first started reading about American health care being a foreigner I saw a persistent argument that in single-payer system "people will die in lines".

This is one of the reasons I really wish international travel was within the reach of more Americans. So more people could observe and experience these other systems - not having to be told about them secondhand by commentators with their own agendas. Not just healthcare, either. Just knowing a bit about how other people live their lives and how things work in other countries is enormously enlightening.

That trip to Europe was one of the most pivotal experiences of my life so far. I learned so much about the rest of the world that coming back to the US after spending a few weeks overseas, everything looked completely different to me. It ignited a lifelong love of travel - one that I hope to share with my daughter as soon as she's old enough to accompany us.

> Yet here in the United States the lines in medical institutions are greater than anything I've seen abroad, open slot for appointment with a doctor in one month is a usual deal.

I live in a mid-sized city. If I need to see a routine general practice doctor for a typical problem (coughs, etc.) I can usually be seen the same day, but I'll probably have to wait a 2-4 hours depending on when I go.

But if I need to see a specialist (allergist, dermatologist, sleep doctor, etc) and it's not a life-or-death emergency, it's usually a 6-week wait for an opening. My only other option is to drive 2 hours away to the next (bigger) city that has a medical school and a large concentration of doctors. Sometimes you can get an appointment in a few days if you're willing to drive.

> And why can't I buy antibiotics without a prescription. Don't I have a right to heal myself?

As someone who suffers from recurrent throat infections at least once a year, YES. Some people in the survivalist and "prepper" communities say you can take "fish antibiotics" but I've never been willing to risk my health over stuff I read on the Internet from questionable sources.


> Some people in the survivalist and "prepper" communities say you can take "fish antibiotics"

This and food supplements, little-known or mostly unregulated chemicals, you can buy them online on your own. But as long as chemical is scientifically proven to help you, then nope, you need someone else's approval.

Fish antibiotics' makers surely provide some info (bare minimum "not for human consumption"), so they are covered if people poison themselves. Human antibiotics provide comprehensive usage directions yet it is insufficient.


from TFA:

> For 2016 and beyond, the penalty will be $695 per adult or 2.5 percent of household income, up from $325 per adult or 2 percent of household income last year.

The difference is that health care costs in the US are nonsensical. So high that it's really hard for the penalty to be less than the cost of insurance, until you have a six-figure income. If you make low-six-figures, you very likely get good health insurance through your employer (which ends up being priced much more reasonably because the group includes mostly healthy people).


Ah, I missed that bit.

I guess the difference is in the cost of healthcare then. Also we don't have health insurance via employers.




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