Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
What if Government had a Google Buzz moment? (sunlightlabs.com)
21 points by cjoh on Feb 12, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 20 comments



Um, no, we should not give the government room to screw up. The government does not exist to innovate. Nor does it exist to create "products". It exists, to quote the U.S. Constitution, to:

"establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity"

Frankly, I'm surprised to see this coming from Sunlight Labs. The point of open government data is not to innovate or develop products, it's to:

a) Give back to the people property which is rightfully theirs. Datasets developed by the U.S. government belong to the people of the United States, excepting in the cases where it doesn't (national security, personal privacy, or otherwise legally restricted). Even then, there's usually a sunset provision at which point the data should be made publicly available upon request.

b) Provide transparency and promote the smooth functioning of participatory democracy.

c) Support accountability in government.


So my point is (I'm the author) is: Transparency requires innovation. It requires government to take and make risks.


And I'm not exactly sure how your hypothetical example of the government doing something illegal, irresponsible, dangerous, and unconstitutional is supposed to support your point.


This makes me think: what should Google do to recover from this? People are angry, they feel violated and betrayed. It's a public relations disaster.

My opinion is that Google needs to draw a line under this whole issue. They need to hold up their hands say "you know what, we didn't realize what we were doing here but we get it now, this was wrong, we're sorry." And within hours of making that statement, pull the whole product off the Internet, and send massive bunches of flowers to the people worst and most publicly affected by the fiasco. In the end, Google is a company with a huge amount of our personal data who's success depends on us trusting them with that data. The precariousness of Google's possession of personal data is debated routinely. And so far a lot of those discussions conclude with someone citing their motto and impeccable past records (the China thing was awesome too). What now? Now, that record has been tarnished. At what cost should that record be maintained? I think killing off Buzz is a small price.

Google really needs to show everyone how seriously it takes people's privacy. I hope they don't miss this opportunity to demonstrate that.


Agreed. They have a small window of opportunity to survive googlegate (or should we call it buzzgate).

Based on their first post on the blog, it looks like they chose the "duck in the sand" approach, classic PR non-speak: ignore the issue, sidetrack it, ridicule it. That's what 99.9% of corporations will do.

Again, they have another 24 hours to do something completely different and acknowledge the problem head-on. It will hurt for a week, but they'll be much better off long-term. Will they have the class and the guts to go for it? I hope so, but I'm not holding my breath.


I am entirely okay with everything they've done. People need to stop overreacting.

They hand held me through the whole Buzz process and all of the defaults were great. All of my non-technical friends also love it. They made it very easy for us to connect and chose settings that work for most people.

The key thing is though that if you don't like Buzz, don't use it. If you don't like Google Profiles, don't make one.


Did you happen to see this item, in which a woman's sensitive data was automagically provided to her abusive ex-husband? http://fugitivus.wordpress.com/2010/02/11/fuck-you-google/


Her most frequent contact was provided with a list of her public blog posts? OH NOES.


Who is angry? I'm not. They need to fix the privacy issues but not pull the whole thing.


Well, I am. I'm willing to stop using gmail if Google doesn't step back.


I'm already making medium-term plans to run my own mail server.


Also, someone started a thread here to discuss alternatives.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1121269


Why not just disable it? It's not difficult.


I removed the "auto-added" things, then switched off "buzz"... but I got many "followers" after that (Buzz can be hidden but not disabled!).

It was crazy to see conversations of people I know speaking with others... GET OFF MY LAWN, YOU FUCKING BUZZ!


I'm also not angry. I actually think it's quite an interesting situation: let's see how agile Google still is.


I thought this article was going to be about what would happen if Google suddenly exposed all the hidden connections among the people who run the government.


Different levels of government "innovate" all the time and very much dislike any oversight or otherwise being open. Nor do many officials - especially at higher levels - face any real consequences for "screw ups".

Somehow give them more latitude? Really?

I am almost never this negative on a linked item, but this one is horrifyingly naive. Hopefully, Clay Johnson isn't in a position at Sunlight Labs where he needs to make judgments about the honesty of government officials.


Are you kidding? Officials don't face any real consequences of Screw Ups? How about Van Jones-- who, 8 years ago, said something stupid, and lost his job as energy czar? There are dozens of casualties like this.

Let's not conflate oversight with openness, too. You can oversee an institution without openness, but you usually can't be open without oversight.

My point is this: When google messes up, we give Google a chance to listen and rectify. When Government messes up (which it always will, because it is run and managed by human beings), we don't. And we ought to.


"There are dozens of casualties like this."

And thousands of such offenses. Hence the phrase "nor do many".


Sort of makes me wonder - is it possible to build a social graph from public records? Does something like this exist already?




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: