Anyways, as a non-American living in the US since 2001, I fail to see an issue with chanting USA, one way or another.
It is an American company, with majority US employees, running this project (mainly) for an American entity (NASA), on US sovereign territory (or ocean?), using a significant chunk of US resources. So, it is their company and their country. I say, let them do what they want with it. And if chanting USA is what they wish to do, I have no problem with that.
Any proud chant is problematic only to the degree of pride it conveys for the wrong thing(s). Landing a space ship in 2016 surely warrants significant pride.
Whether the USA is worth praising for this particular success, I'm not as sure. But damn, congrats to everyone involved. You just landed a fucking space ship. Good job.
SpaceX is a company full of highly-dedicated, ridiculously hard-working patriotic Americans who went to prestigious American universities - both private and public - and is run by a extremely ambitious and innovative legal immigrant.
The company embodies everything that makes America great. Chant away.
I think its offensive to have nationalistic robot-like-chanting being defended as an okay thing. Its the sort of thing you expect people to do at rallies or cult gatherings, and from an outsider perspective it always tarnishes what is otherwise a very rational event, because its an implied irrational, collective mindset. As a non-American, I wish it'd stop - its a major turnoff for these events, and I switch away when it starts up.
I know, I know - Americans have a right to be proud, and they do. But expressing it with a cult-like mechanism that is, essentially "our group is great, nobody else can/has done this" is just .. revolting.
I say this, knowing full well I'm going to get down voted for it, but I really do wish you Americans would think about it from the other side of your dark mirror. Can't we come up with a chant that includes all of humanity? After all, America wouldn't be the nation it is today without all other nations on Earth, including the ones that America has invaded, and destroyed completely, wantonly, for decades.
EDIT: Feel how this post detracts from the main article, and is a distraction from the feel-goodness of SpaceX's accomplishments? For us non-Americans, thats how the USA-cult chant feels - a total distraction. I wish I could down vote the chanting when I see it on TV, too.
"ON! TO! MARS! ON! TO! MARS!". I would sooo much love to hear that chant next time.
That would really do justice to this kind of historic event. A chant like this would celebrate progress and claim this for what it is, an accomplishment of/for humanity. After all, space travel does focus our attention on how we are all humans and on earth.
You're getting downvoted into oblivion, but yeah, that's basically how I feel. Cultural differences, I'm sure, because I'm not USian; but every time I see it on the youtube videos it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
I'm fine about sporting events, because it's about something that doesn't matter --- the whole point of sport is to channel the sex-violence-and-tribalism thing in a safe and relatively controlled fashion.
What disturbs me about something like the chanting at SpaceX is that it's something that does matter, and which I feel strongly about. Seeing their great technical achievement turn into exclusionary tribal posturing makes me very sad.
I'm sure there's a long way to go before SpaceX fans and STS fans start beating each other up in the street... but it is one step down that path.
Its a collective/cult response, is why it makes me uncomfortable. "Everyone else is doing it, so should I", and while its occurring, no other rational thought is occurring. It is a known thought-stopping technique in cults.
I also despise it when it happens at sports events. Its just demeaning to whoever doesn't fall in line and start the goose-step.
First "and while its occurring, no other rational thought is occurring". I'm not really sure how to respond to that. Of course no rational thought is taking place. It's a celebration. They aren't trying to have a rational discussion.
Second "Its just demeaning to whoever doesn't fall in line and start the goose-step". I have never seen anyone that is somewhere people are chanting it and be ridiculed for not joining along. It is completely up to anyone whether they want to participate.
I think space exploration/achievement is a very big point of pride for Americans. Ever since the moon landing, everyone has fell in love with the space program. Chanting USA! doesn't mean give up all rational thought and blindly follow the countries leaders. It means a bunch of Americans just did something amazing. I'm glad to be a part of this country that is doing great things. It also doesn't mean go USA fuck Europe. Sure there is a little bit of a competitive undertone, but so what. If SpaceX says look what we did, I dare you guys to do better well then good. Competition is the reason why space programs are where they are. Sorry you don't like how one country likes to celebrate. Luckily everyone is free to do whatever they want.
The idea that a group of SpaceX employees chanting "USA", not "Europe Sucks" or "Death to Russia", or some other chant that specifically calls out and demeans another group, but simply USA-USA-USA, is somehow analogous to a Nazi rally is very surprising to me.
Perhaps you haven't taken enough time to observe and understand the conditions of those who are on the receiving end of Americas military-industrial aggression...
I would be wary in making assumptions about a stranger's background and what conditions they may or may not have grown up under prior to immigrating to the US. I can assure you I am more than familiar with the receiving end of both American and Russian military aggression.
I continue to find the notion of SpaceX employees chanting USA to be analogous to the rallies of a man who thought it a good idea to send several million people to the gas chambers as suspect.
I suppose I'll just chalk this up to me not being as enlightened as you.
If you want to see it on a dialectic +/- scale, fine by me, who am I to convince you otherwise .. but it is in fact a gradient scale, which starts with witless/robotic/cult chanting, and ends with crimes against humanity. BTW, yes, the USA is on the upper echelons of this scale: or did you think its wanton pillaging of nation after nation with its military-industrial toys is justifiable, somehow?
Hey, "Sieg Heil!" started off 'harmless enough' too, yo. All the cool cats were doing it .. at first.
So .. Who knows where all this is going to go .. we may well be on the precipice of an enormous catastrophe, all for the whim of wanton displays of pride, prejudice, nationalism, and awe-/fear-inspiring technology. All I'm saying is, it took a lot of nations for America to get where it is today. It didn't do it alone. And some of those nations were seriously broken in the process ..
(Besides which, there is no such thing as 'USA'.. it is a fiction. Gravity doesn't care about your fancy flag. In space, nobody can hear your chant..)
Surely you have seen examples of nationalism outside of the 1930-40s comtext? It's an ugly thing. Maybe watch a Trump rally and then you get a good idea with an American context.
I knew I would get down voted, because the collective group-think mindset is very strong around this particular issue, and Americans have been programmed to think its acceptable to make these kind of cult-chants when they do something special. It is a special event - most definitely - but the cult-chant ruins it. Very obnoxious.
Honestly you just sound kind of brittle if others chanting USA! ruins something for you. Sometimes the USA chant is overdone but in this case I think it's awesome.
To each their own. What starts as an awesome technological event, ends with thought-stopping cult-like behavior. I guess the two are entwined, eternally, throughout human culture, so I shouldn't be surprised ..
> running this project (mainly) for an American entity (NASA)
NASA is the largest customer but so far they account only for about 50% of the launches. This one in particular was for JSAT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSAT_Corporation), a Japanese company.
I'm a little uneasy with the chant mostly because I (want to) perceive it to be largely a commercial enterprise and this win should belong firstly to the company and people working there. Too bad that "SpaceX" just doesn't sound that great as a chant.
It reminds, a little, of certain systems where the state is held above all else, where patriotism is a requirement and a virtue in itself, and where there's no division between government and economy.
WATTENBERG:
I got to think a lot of illegals add a lot of value to the United States. You have been quoted as saying that you are nauseatingly pro American.
MUSK:
Yes, that’s true.
WATTENBERG:
What do you mean?
MUSK:
Well, I mean, I think the United States is the greatest country that’s ever existed on earth. And I think that it will be difficult to argue on objective grounds that it is not. I think the facts really point in that direction. It’s the greatest force for good of any country that’s ever been.
There would not be democracy in the world if not for the United States. We’re obviously falling in the recent few occasions -- maybe three separate occasions in the Twentieth Century -- democracy would have fallen with World War 1, World War 2 and the Cold War, but for the United States.
WATTENBERG:
And perhaps the threat of terrorism would be much greater if it were not for the United States.
MUSK:
Yeah, absolutely. I think it would be a mistake to say the United States is perfect, it certainly is not. There have been many foolish things the United States has done and bad things the United States has done.
But when historians look at these things on balance and measure the good with the bad -- and I think if you do that and -- on a rational basis and make a fair assessment -- I think it’s hard to [unintelligible] that the United States -- is there anything better [speaking over each other]
WATTENBERG:
I have a reputation of interrupting my guests. But when they say exactly what I believe, I just let them talk and talk. I think you’re 100 percent right.
MUSK:
And -- you know I wasn’t born in America -- I got here as fast as I could.
What exactly is wrong with that discussion? I found the level of evangelical, employee circle jerking at these SpaceX events to be nauseating. And that was before they started chanting. Well done guys but it's just not necessary.
Good ol' HN. These folks are pushing the boundaries like nobody else, advancing humanity more than a thousand Facebooks or Snapchats ever could, but if they express pride in their work it's a "circle jerk."
If they chanted "SpaceX," or "Falcon 9," or "JCSAT-14" it would signify pride in their work. The "USA" chant glorifies the state/government above all else.
It's the same reason why foreigners are baffled by, for example, the Pledge of Allegiance.
I wouldn't say it glorifies the state above all else but I would point out that even in a private company such as SpaceX the employees tend to be aware of the role government plays within the realm of space exploration.
I choose to view the chants as a showing of pride in the acceptance that despite the hard work being done by the employees at SpaceX, none of this would be possible without the pioneering work of NASA and other governmental research organizations, as well as the myriad of universities that educate our workforce, largely supported by the American taxpayer.
I won't propose to speak on behalf of others but in my case whenever I feel a sense of pride or accomplishment for something I have done, whether that be here at work or in my personal life, I certainly try and take a moment to acknowledge in my mind the many people, some of whom I have no direct connection with, who have played a role in my success.
As the child of immigrants who sacrificed a great deal for the opportunity to come to the US and as someone who grew up poor, not particularly bright, and with no formal education beyond that of high school, but who now has the opportunity to work on hardware that is launched into space, I always try and maintain a sense of appreciation for the country, and its people, that I now call home.
Well the advances remain to be seen in the decades to come. I could understand that level of excitement for putting a person on Mars but not for a satellite deployment or ISS restocking mission.
Maybe it's just a cultural difference but there is something unsettling and cringey about seeing those employees act so enthusiastic.
Is it genuine? Maybe for some employees. But the camera setup makes me think there is some expectation placed upon the employees that they will be there to cheer. It's not natural.
Soccer and sports in general are the spaces reserved for tribal and pre-civilized behaviours: rooting for one team against another, chanting, cheering for a victory or for the defeat of the opponent (in confrontations that are purely symbolic).
Those who take this behaviour outside of the stadium often tend to salute their comrades with a straight arm, and resort to knives and sticks to prove their superiority outside of the pitch.
Or, you could see it like this. Europe has seen enough of nationalistic pride and of masses chanting in the streets. It didn't end well, and we know it. The USA don't happen to have made the experience yet in first person, though they certainly have a second hand knowledge of it.
Pride in the accomplishments of your own nation is a good thing. However often it clouds your perception of its faults and wrongdoings.
> Those who take this behaviour outside of the stadium often tend to salute their comrades with a straight arm, and resort to knives and sticks to prove their superiority outside of the pitch.
Or... they launch rockets into space, and land them back on a small platform.
The main missions are fairly routine and I don't see people getting particularly excited about those. What everybody's excited about is the landings, and those absolutely deserve every bit of excitement we can put up.
http://www.space.com/32811-spacex-rocket-landing-jcsat-14-la...
Hopefully we won't have the typical hacker news discussion about why the employees chant USA.