I think people always are easily obsessed and get attached to things they touch. Those things becomes extensions of themselves. I am that way about my smart phone, keyboard and headphones. I could replace the monitor tomorrow without thinking twice about it. Get a new hard drive, new router, even a new a new laptop because I don't touch but use an external keyboard.
But, as soon as my IBM Model M keyboard stopped working last month, it really bothered me (it was my fault for spilling coffee on it). So I got my backup Cherry MX Blue keyboard from Rosewill (also a nice mechanical keyboard for only $60 or so) and then proceeded to take apart my IBM keyboard in the evenings, to see how it works and fix it. I just got a new membrane for it and am doing what's called a "bolt mod" replace plastic rivets in it with bolts.
It is completely irrational spending all this time on it, but it am really attached to that particular keyboard.
> It is completely irrational spending all this time on it, but it am really attached to that particular keyboard.
Nostalgia and/or emotional attachment aside, I think you can actually rationalize repairing it:
① Knowledge and skills. Repairing stuff increases your understanding of the things you use on a daily basis.
② Emotional reward. Successfully repairing something is simply satisfying.
③ Environmentalism. You manage to keep one more product functioning instead of consigning it to a landfill.
I am willing to bet that the time you sink into this project is mostly your down-time. If you weren't doing this, you might be watching Netflix, or playing a game, or reading a book — it is not lost time.
Just make sure to blog about it and you can file this time under "marketing". A touch of geekiness looks good on a résumé as long as it does not smell of elitism.
You are right. It was fun with a good sense of accomplishment at the end. On point 1, I was thinking quite a bit about how they used to make and how quality and assembly was different back then. Saw how some materials aged better than others. There was a thin rubber sheet between the keys and the membrane, I would expect after 30 years it would have been falling apart, but it was in great shape.
Not irrational at all. I've gone through countless newer keyboards, both insanely expensive mechanical gaming and business, yet none feels as "right" as the M. I got it new for a pittance in the 90s.
It may weigh almost as much as me, and look a little grubby, but it seems destined to remain in mint condition forever. If it had a few media keys it'd be perfect.
Keyboards and trackpoints are why I stuck with Thinkpads for years, and despite owning several always hated Macbook keyboards and touchpads. It's also why I was deeply offended when Lenovo replaced the 7 row keyboard with the compromised 6. When I spent a lot of time on iMacs I had a mechanical that was similar to the old extended keyboard (though not as reliable).
So no, as the main interface to a machine, having a good keyboard with adequate travel is hugely important, and not the least bit irrational.
A common misconception. The USB HID Keyboard Boot Protocol, aka the lowest-common-denominator mode, is very limited and is where this belief comes from. 6KRO + modifiers, limited refresh rate, etc.
This mode is only required for compatibility with certain BIOSes and pre-USB operating systems, though some "gaming" keyboards start in this mode and only switch when they've been twiddled by their driver because a subset of those certain BIOSes won't even boot properly with a keyboard that goes beyond the boot protocol connected.
When booted to a remotely modern OS that has a full featured HID Keyboard driver it can support NKRO, up to 1000Hz refresh rates, etc. and as far as I'm aware is able to match or beat PS/2 in all ways.
In cases where there is no PCB with PS/2, do you know if the adapter when connected to PS/2 has the exact same behavior or are is it a lesser/compatibility mode without the full benefits?
Anytime I sit at a machine where the USB chip happens to reset, I wish it would use PS/2. It's just not the same, and I'm not even using n-key-rollover.
IBM used to make tenkeyless Model M's, wish Unicomp would offer the same since I'm very used to having the mouse closer to my hands. Then I could give a Model M a serious try, having used Cherry MXes for two decades, with the occasional one day excursion on a Sun or HP workstation keyboard.
I got the Unicomp with the trackstick mouse for quick mouse actions, then I reach over for the real mouse for longer uses of it, but I'm with you on wishing for a tenkeyless. Toshiba and Lenovo sold me on the mouse stick in the 90s, so it still feels natural for some things & my hand doesn't have to travel far, but nothing beats a real mouse.
I took the dive on an ergodox ez a couple of months ago. It took me nearly a month to get fully comfortable with it, but now typing on a regular keyboard just feels less than ideal. I just ordered a second one for my home computer.
I can't type on a horrible staggered keyboard anymore. Once you get used to it (about a week for me), it just feels so natural. I can never go back. Staggered keys are perverse, all the contortions necessary just to locate the keys with your fingers.
The only problem is that now I look like a total retard when trying to use anyone else's keyboard, which is a pretty regular occurrence unfortunately as I'm in IT.
Question - did you go with the default blank keys? And how do you like them? I'm trying to figure out which keys to get, but I have yet to see one in person.
I'd say you should have a little practice on a board that you don't care about first, just get a protoboard and some resistors and have a go. Check youtube for basic soldering beginner videos, if only to see how long you should be heating the pads for. If you leave the soldering iron on the pads for more than, say, 7 seconds, you can lift the tracks off the board and that'll be a problem.
I'm pretty sure the surface-mount parts are already done for you on the Infinity Ergodox, switches are just about the easiest things to solder because they're quite large and the pins are far apart.
So yeah, shouldn't be too hard, and you'll have a sense of achievement when it's done! I love using a keyboard that I've assembled myself.
I regret getting rid of two Model M's several years ago because I didn't know about the bolt mod. It's not irrational to spend a lot of time maintaining a tool that helps you make money. I'll hold on to my current M forever, if it'll last.
It's a matter of ergonomics, as well as aesthetic taste. Some keyboards allow some keyboardists to make more money than other keyboards. If you can type faster and enjoy typing more, you can make more money, and you're more likely to stick with the profession. If your keyboard makes you hate every moment of your day because of the way it feels or because it injures your hands or wrists, then you will likely make less money.
Plus, our profession requires enough creativity to be compared (loosely) to art. An artist's tools need to feel a certain way to evoke the right state of mind for creative work.
A colleague snapped once at the recently delivered $5 keyboard attached to a really expensive workstation, and ripped out the cheap rattling keyboard with keys that twist and hooks into others, and smashed it into a pillar and then broke it in half.
Keys where flying over the office. Silence. And then applause.
I don't really understand why professional tools are allowed to be so absolutely horrible.
Destroying a keyboard is actually pretty hard - something like physically cracking a CD. I have accomplished it however. I am notorious for keyboard rage, and have hurt the heel of my right hand pretty badly on multiple occasions pounding mercilessly on keyboards.
I'll say one thing about my Unicomp keyboard. I have beat it savagely while enraged at some other screw-up in the computer or OS. I have sent keys flying, but always I could find them and snap them back in easily. It is physically as strong as a brick outhouse. After many years I have succeeded in wearing away some of the corners of the lettering on the E, S, and A keys, but they are still readable, and it is still as tight mechanically as new.
My keyboards nowadays are so expensive and difficult to replace that I wouldn't ever dream of breaking them on purpose.
My Ergodox took me countless hours to plan, more to assemble, then even more hours after that tweaking the firmware. It wasn't cheap either, but some of the best money I've ever spent regardless.
The horrible hp membrane keyboards at work, however, I would love to nuke from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
It’s definitely “legit”, in the sense that the creators/backers are members of online keyboard communities with good reputations. New hardware projects are always incredibly difficult, but I expect them to ship all their keyboards, possibly with some delay.
I don't even know what "irrational" means in this context.
If I enjoy using the keyboard and think it improves my performance, even if I am mistaken, how is that irrational? Happiness is not a measure of efficiency.
Don't you see, you always need to optimize yourself and everything around you using rational methods. If no rational methods are available, fall back to pseudorational methods. Easy.
I used the Cherry MX blues for quite a while, the 3000's series are exceptional value for money.
Sadly I had to switch to an Ergo 4000 at home and work due to postural issues and while it is a lovely keyboard and works well I miss the clicky-clack (even used https://github.com/skkeeper/linux-clicky for a while) :)
I fully understand what you mean about getting attached to technology though, I feel like that about my franken-desktop and my old(ish) Vostro laptop which I nurse a long, it's dented, battered and scratched but it's mine.
Agree. I'm looking to spend a surprisingly large amount of money on doubleshot PBT keycaps, because I'm frustrated by the lack of durability that any other type has. Can't finds sets for much below $50, for what amounts to some plastic.
I don't know or care if mechanical keyboards increase my typing speed and/or precision, but they feel great and make me enjoy work more. If I can choose between a rocky desk and a sturdy one, I'll choose the latter, although they both do the job sufficiently well for my needs.
A few months ago I got myself a tenkeyless with brown Cherry MX switches, and I am getting a second one now, because I can't be bothered to type on a rubber dome at home anymore. I might even paint this one and install PBT keys and O-rings, which only shows that I'm enjoying these things enough to develop a full blown fetish.
I also agree that the MacBook keyboards were pretty great before the retina ones were introduced, and they seem to get worse (flatter) with every revision. I now prefer the current Lenovo chiclets over the current Apple ones.
The Apple Trackpad still rocks my socks off, though.
If they only were as much available to buy as much people talk about them. I never used it before, I tried, I loved it, I researched a lot, I've finally chosen one ... and only got disappointed by availability. They're nowhere to be in stock. I found it only on Amazon UK and they want almost the same as keyboard price for a shipping. And no, it's not some bizarre custom made thing - it is just a normal Ducky One TKL. I got the feeling that market was pretty small on them, then people started to talk, hype risen, and now we have more requests then offers.
In the end I've chosen Ducky One without back light. Not a big deal as I usually work with some small light on. There was shop in Indonesia which has not that bad shipping rates around Asia. Sooner or later I will probably buy PBT keycaps. I am good for now, still, that wasn't the best customer experience. I am talking about market in general, not this specific shop.
As a programmer I am disappointed with the lack of innovation in mechanical keyboards. They all look the same and have extremely similar layouts.
What I could really use is some navigation keys to the left of the keyboard; maybe two columns of keys that are programmable; any innovation actually would be nice.
I recommend the Ergodox wholeheartedly. You can put arrows wherever you want. I have a layer always set up so I hold down a thumb key and the home row becomes arrows. As a touch-typist, I can move the cursor and select text (holding "shift") without moving my hand. I'm using Dvorak layout, but if it was Qwerty, my (right hand) home row goes from this:
Y U I O
H J K L
To:
Esc PgUp Up PgDn
Home Left Down Right End
It is totally natural now for me, I get frustrated being on a keyboard without this functionality.
Odd, I couldn't get that to format correctly, is there anyway to define a code block in hacker news markup?
I blame consumers for the lack of (reasonably-priced/available) innovative options in keyboards.
Everyone who notices my Ergodox thinks I'm the one who's odd, while I think anybody who would use a horrible membrane keyboard for 8 hours a day at work without yearning for something better is the one who is odd.
You can get keyboard without a numpad and add a Filco TenKeyPad to the mix.
Navigation keys on the left would be cool. But I'm also really happy with a default tenkeyless. I think that fact that they mostly look the same is good. Like most electric guitars look like Stratocasters or Les Pauls. But then I'm not a big fan of novelty in design in general.
There are people who build their own keyboards using mechanical switches in interesting designs.
There's lots of innovation but you need to look at the smaller developers and in some cases build it from parts yourself. Check out the something like the Planck, Keyboardio, The White Fox or the various Red Scarf II boards.
All of those you can also customise to make any key do exactly what you want, make the space bar double as a modifier key etc.
I have about 5 mechanical keyboards (WASD, Duckys, DAS, ...) and yet if I want to type fast, I use an apple keyboard. The short travel distance of those keys really work for me.
I've been waiting for switches that are somewhere in between, mechanical but thin travel. I've looked at some really esoteric and rare keyboards as well but I wouldn't fork $220 for a keyboard...
Anyways I totally understand his view though. I can't believe the latest keyboards on the macbooks. I couldn't stand them for 10 mins at the apple store trying to surf. My 2008 Mac book pro keyboard was the best thing on earth. I found it better than my older thinkpad (I know, hot topic).
And I bloody hope that they don't mess up the external keyboard in that fashion, or I will go out and buy 10 and stash them for the future. That's the only down side of the apple keyboard, they last a year at most, after which the switches get mushy.
A small tip which can help when typing with mechanical key switches: you don't need to bottom them out. Most barely have to travel 1/3 the total distance they are capable of traveling.
If you can learn to type on one without bottoming out, you will notice the same speed increases, as well as greater comfort while typing. Be forewarned: bottoming out is a hard habit to break.
And different switches behave differently. Cherry MX Blue and Brown switches have a mechanical bump just after the switch is registered so you have tactile feedback before bottoming out. This is in contrast to the Cherry MX Black that's perfectly smooth.
It's kind of like the difference between the Nintendo Zapper trigger and the triggers on an Xbox 360 controller.
It's the same for me. Although owning 2 mechanical keyboards I'm actually feeling fastest on good low profile keyboards, like the 2015 Macbook Pro keyboard. The Non-Pro-Macbook keyboard however seems awful.
However this superior typing speed seems to be only a subjective feeling for me, some typing speed programs suggest that the end result about the same. I don't think the reason is the key travel alone, it's also the height of the keycaps and the overall keyboard. I find it easier to move the hands around on the lower profile ones.
For less key travel you could try the offerings from Logitech (Romer G Switches have less travel than) or the newer Cherry Mx Silent Switches (which can however only be found on some rare Corsair offerings). I have a Logitech one and the feeling is significantly different to classical Cherry. However the keycap and keyboard height for all of those is pretty much equal to classical mechanical keyboards.
If you want less travel on your mechanical keyboard, you can use o-rings on the switches. Also dampens the sound when bottoming out. I personally use one per switch, but you can also go for two rings per switch which gives you laptop-like travel.
It killed one of my DAS actually using those. Not sure what happened, the controller just stopped working and I was told "that happens". And I found later (with a new one) that I much preferred it without those, it felt like a manual clutch on an automatic car.
The Magic Keyboard and Retina MacBook Pro Keyboards are the sweet spot for my fingers. I tried the MacBook keyboard and I can't get used to it for the life of me.
I NEED a little bit of travel under my fingertips, it's an important feedback that speeds up the typing. The butterfly mechanism is way too similar to typing on a screen.
I own all three of these keyboards/laptops and I agree completely. The butterfly keys on the pretty little MacBook work well enough, and they do allow the MB to be so small and light that it has replaced my iPad for short trips. The MB is perfect for reading HN at the coffee shop, but the new style keys just don't cut it for extended sessions of typing.
I'm hoping that the new MacBook Pro just announced with the new generation of butterfly keys will be as good as the Retina MBP or the Magic Keyboard; it remains to be seen.
I have a MacBook (which I love in general) and I've come to prefer its keyboard to the older Mac keyboards with more travel and smaller caps, which just feel mushy to me now. I doubt i'll be getting one of the new Pro models in the near future, but I suspect that the keyboards on those might be a sweet spot for me as far as laptop keyboards go.
The keyboard I use when I'm sitting at a desk is an HHKB with PBT caps and deep, luxurious Topre switches, which has no real mobile equivalent as far as I know.
Over the years I've become attached to different keyboards and it changes. For years I was a mechanical keyboard snob but eventually that obsession passed.
My current keyboard of choice is the Logitech K750. It's cheap but fits my hands and typing style perfectly. My big complaint is that the volume up key is beside the power down key so occasionally when a great song plays and I want to crank the volume, I instead power my machine down and that's a huge buzzkill. My second complaint is that the battery wears out and Logitech hasn't made it easy to replace. I wish I could buy a wired version.
This is some amazing writing. I couldn't care less about what kind of keyboard I use, but I kept reading and reading because this was just so easy to read.
Can anybody explain why what made this such a good read? Or point me in a direction where I can improve my own writing?
I guess I'll be the contrarian today, but honestly I found his writing to be needlessly long and meandering.
I felt I already knew what he was going to say (based on the title alone), but it took dozens of paragraphs to get to the meat of it. The history with previous Apple devices didn't seem all that necessary to get to the real point at the end.
It's totally fine to have a different opinion. When you went into the article, you expected to read something about the author's mechanical keyboard. The article was instead about technology that diverged from the author's tastes. Even I—someone who really liked the style—found myself wondering halfway through when the mechanical keyboard would come into play. It was only relevant for a couple paragraphs at the end, despite being the title of the piece.
Title considerations aside, I'd say the lead-up was more important than the conclusion. The article could be summed up in a single idea: Apple's keyboards are less enjoyable to type on than mechanical keyboards. However, the article isn't really about the superiority of mechanical keyboards; it's about how a loyalist can gradually become disillusioned with the decisions a company makes. Although Apple is ostensibly headed in the same direction as it was a decade ago, not everyone appreciates the trend of its technology. The issue is subtle, as each customer will have a different preferred feature mix. The meandering is important because it makes up the essence of the author's story.
I'm with you. when the title is "my mechanical keyboard" all I want to know is "what keyboard is it?"
If the article is about "why I switched to a mechanical keyboard" or "How I came to use a mechanical keyboard" then call it that. It will be an accurate description of what the title is about and the reader will know what to expect.
I agree completely - his writing is a joy to read.
At the bottom of the article it says he "writes about sports, particularly baseball". Baseball, more than other sports, seems to generate great writing. I don't know if there's something writerly about the sport itself or if it's just a coincidence, but there seems to be a correlation.
I like the font (I think it's Palanquin) and I like the line spacing and I like the line width--its just very easy to read, but most of all I like the writing.
IMO the keyboard is the software engineer's most important tool. I feel most at home on a Chromebook keyboard (ctrl and alt keys on both sides with no win or cmd keys), but I can't find a good external Chromebook keyboard. Even if I could find one, it probably wouldn't be mechanical or wireless (two more keyboard features I love). I'm with Joe, today's keyboards make me sad.
I have got the same Thinkpad USB keyboard and I love it. I think it is very close to the keyboard of the X230 generation of laptops. While the layout has some flaws, I actually prefer typing on this compared to the "classic" pre-cliclet keyboard built into my X220 laptop. It has a very nice tactile response and my fingers find the right keys very easily. So it's "clicky" and "precise". The trackpoint is very useful, compared to the older model of my X220 it is much easier to comfortably travel long distances on a big screen. Only the trackpoint buttons are a bit too mushy for my liking.
I think you just made the decision for it going on my christmas list, I always loved the TrackPoint on my old thinkpad, not having to move hands from keyboard was a nice win and I still occasionally use that machine if I have to do a lot of typing and need to be away from my desk.
It's crazy that I'd pick an ancient R50E (Celeron 1.4Ghz feel the speed!) over my vastly more powerful 17" Vostro but the keyboard really matters.
They feel basically like the new Thinkpad keyboards (e.g. X1 Carbon). The only weak point is the USB port which can break pretty easily when you travel a lot with your keyboard, although with enough care it should not be a problem.
To me the Chromebook keyboard layout is a key feature. I thought the absence of a delete key would be a problem, this has not proven to be the case. The simplicity is a joy.
A keyboard that you might want to try is the Logitech K810. I accidentally bought the Apple keyed 811 variant and have decided to go for the PC variant as I have done so well with the 811 version. You can also get a case for it and nowadays that is what I travel with, leaving the laptop behind. I can use the Logitech keyboard on all devices that matter, swapping between desktop, phone and laptop with a simple keypress.
I also balance this keyboard over the keyboard on my laptop, it somehow doesn't affect the keys below and offers a better typing experience. The keystroke illumination is better than on the Chromebook Pixel, as is the keystroke mechanism feel, and I did have the Chromebook Pixel keyboard down as best in any laptop. For these reasons I am doubling down on the portable Logitech keyboard.
Another idea: maybe go for retro cool keyboards. For instance an SGI keyboard from back in the day. This is a totally standard keyboard without any Windows keys:
My all time favorite keyboard is my apple //e. Last time I was home visiting my parents, they mentioned it was in the basement. Went down and typed a few things just for the feel. Still my favorite.
Modern mechanicals don't compare in the slightest.
That said, I vastly prefer my MacBook Pro keyboard to modern mechanicals. It's last years model. Never tried a MacBook that I recall, so I have no opinion there.
But my last MacBook Pro was great for me for 5 years, and I plan on hanging on to this one for a while.
What is it that you like in particular about the //e keyboard that the current mechanicals are lacking? Looks like it has a fairly stiff linear switch.
I don't know that I can express it. If I had it with me and could perform a live comparison to my mechanical here I could probably say.
Next time I visit my parents (new years maybe) I'll give it a try.
From memory, which may not be accurate, I would say it felt more like playing a piano. The feel had a certain weightiness to it, and there wasn't some peak resistance/click midway through the travel.
The nice thing about my MBPr is that the keyboard doesn't even enter my mind when I'm using it. I just type. I have to make an effort to specifically pay attention to it.
And that is really how I like it. I don't type because I want to feel the keyboard. I type because I want to write something.
I think people are mistaking familiarity (or lack thereof) with the goodness or badness of a keyboard.
I use a 60% Vortex Pok3r with Cherry MX Clears and it perfectly fits my needs. Looks wonderful in my setup, feels very good, and I enjoy typing. Working in vim is definitely an advantage, though.
I find it a bit ironic that after complaining that Apple keyboards have lost all of their "sound" and "force", he goes out and buys a keyboard with Cherry MX Red switches, which have no tactility, no feedback, and very low actuation force.
You have a point, but it would be rather jarring to go straight from the light touch of a scissor/butterfly switch to the rigidity of an MX Green or a buckling spring. MX Reds and Browns can be a happy compromise.
Agreed. When I got my first mechanical keyboard, I explicitly avoided the Reds and Browns because I feared they might not be tactile enough. (I'm currently using Clears.)
However, a colleague got a Cherry model with Browns, so I could try them out, and they seemed reasonably pleasant. (Haven't used them longer than a minute, though.)
Yup, I've tried most of the common switches, but ended up getting blues. Obviously it depends on personal preference, but I'm just saying that if you want a tactile, clicky keyboard, reds are usually not your first pick.
I tried reds and its worse than chiclet or butterfly keys, a lot of mistyping. I bet it's good for games though. Blues are annoying, the browns are the sweet spot.
To be fair though, emojis are not central in their marketing messages. People like you and me can view it as a passing gimmick. Remember Ping? The belly-up mouse? We can forgive a few flops, right?
Or how do we know emojis are not the new language of some sort?
There is still a lot of good stuff going on. Logic Pro X now includes Alchemy (acquired by Apple recently) and to many music producers this is huge. The fingerprint scanner on laptops is also huge I think. "Huge" is on a relative scale of course. And most importantly, the macOS is still UNIX we know and love, with added security and a seriously good GUI.
I'm not sure if this is Apple "moving forward" or simply engendering more consumer cynicism. Thin laptops are nice. But so thin that the RAM has to be soldered on the logic board, and you have to pay a premium up-front to get the specs you want? The touch strip looks nice, but it's adding at least $300 to the price of each machine. I don't think we've seen $300 worth of potential value yet, so the feature looks like a consumer-unfriendly money grab.
That $300 difference includes a faster processor (2GHz vs. 2.9GHz), faster memory, better graphics card, more USB ports, and the TouchBar + fingerprint scanner. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
No. It's about companies who had leaders like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates who themself cared about their products and did a lot of testing themself and did micro management were it did make sense. Nowadays, the new bosses of said companies give shit and know little. The newer products don't feel like they were created by a single company-mind but cobbled together by many teams that compete against each other. Look at Windows 10, look at XBoxOne, look at the new MacBookPro - so many things that end consumer hate, yet the bosses those companies don't care. The previous generation where a lot better. That's the point. Well, the end consumer moves on. Even if it means looking elsewhere, which means a lot of hurt in short term, but what else can an end consumer do, if they don't listen anymore.
I'd say Windows 10 isn't the best example: Many of us truly like it.
IMO the only legitimately annoying thing I see about it is the telemetry situation as well as Microsoft injecting ads into lock-screen and start menu (but I haven't seen either of these for months.)
Call it a distortion field, but Apple hasn't been overtaken by marketing people (yet). Marketing is driven by today's demand almost by definition, while Apple can easily make today's markets a little worried and uncomfortable (headphone jack, touchbar etc.) which to me is a sure sign Apple tries to remain true to itself.
I'm just grateful pc gamers' realization of the benefits of proper key mechanisms has led to more production when it seemed like mechanical keyboards were only marketed in the enterprise. There was a time when flat rubber keyboards were all the hype.
I get the obsession this guy has with keyboards. It may be a pretentious luxury problem, but if we didn't have those, we'd have a problem...
But I don't get the 5000-word Apple-rant of an introduction. It's not that he's found a notebook with an excellent mechanical keyboard – it's just an external one. Now if you need a keyboard that probably costs 200$, and is actually thicker than most notebooks of any kind, and you have to attach it to /some/ computer anyway, then Apple just doesn't seem part of the equation.
Keyboard enthusiasts should be singing Apple's praises right now. Not because their new keyboards are great (haven't tried) but they've put it on the agenda in the first place. Just like the retina Macbook made everyone scramble for high-dpi displays (now followed by wide-gamut displays).
Yeah, but the fact that the new Macbook Pros use the same terrible keyboard as the Macbook, means that this guy is not going to buy one for his next computer.
> Keyboard enthusiasts should be singing Apple's praises right now.
Are you serious? These keyboards are TERRIBLE. What exactly have they put on the agenda? How to replace pretty good laptop keyboards with crappy ones?
Huge misfire by Apple. Jony Ive will run that company into the ground in a nice, thin, aluminium coffin.
Not all mechanical keyboards are loud. Some people like an audible click with each key, and so will buy a keyboard with a switch like the Cherry MX Blue[1]. Some don't, or work around other people and are considerate, and choose a Cherry Red or Brown, or equivalent from other manufacturers. (Red has a very linear feel, while brown has a sort of a 'bump' when it activates, similar to the ones that click, but not as extreme and without the noise.) These don't make much sound at all, unless you hit the key hard enough that the actual plastic key cap bottoms out. That can easily be solved though, either by typing more gently and not bottoming out (which will allow you to type faster and with less stress on your fingers) or by putting O-Ring dampeners around the keys[2].
I use a Leopold FC750R with brown mx cherry switches[0] at work. It uses a sound dampening pad and is no louder than a regular membrane keyboard. My coworkers were hesitant about me using a mech at the office when I first got hired but now have no complaints after realizing not all switches and keyboards sound like a type writer. Btw I absolutely love that keyboard and Leopolds in general, I have 3 of them... Bottom line is some mech keyboards are extremely loud, especially if you bottom out on every key press, but there are many options for noise reduction; use brown switches, use a keyboard with a dampening pad, install o-rings on each switch, don't bottom out.
No I don't think it does that either. What it dampens is the vibration caused in the steel plate due to the switches - aka the dreaded "ping" - bottoming out can be a factor of course, but so are switch springs moving back into position or even just banging the keyboard.
I haven't had any complaints from my fellow coworkers in the past six years I've been working at The Company (I brought in a True-Blue IBM Modem M keyboard to work (six years ago, still using the same one)---I have about half a dozen in storage just in case). Sturdy construction and they keep on working.
If you work in one of these (misguided) open-plan offices, ask you co-workers if the noise bothers them. Whatever they say, take your mechanical keyboard home and play with it there. There's no good reason to inflict that noise on your co-workers. They'll appreciate it even if they won't call you out on it.
That's funny, some of my co-workers have cherry blue keyboards but the sound doesn't bother me. Most people in the office have one of those Microsoft Ergonomic keyboards though, and the sound of those drives me absolutely mad. I hate it. Maybe I should lay hints or ask them to take their keyboard home and play with it there...
That's a good point: typing [1] may be fine background noise for some; speaker-phone conversations, giggles, farts, and expletives for others. Being conscientious by considering and adjusting one's volume level when typing, speaking, farting, or swearing will help us survive our open-plan dark age as we await the facility-clerics' re-discovery of ancient door and wall technologies.
I would do that, if they would not inflict their rambling speaker-phone conference calls on me.
The root of the problem is trying to pack people into a room like sardines and expect them to get any work done. But forcing people to use substandard equipment doesn't help anything.
Yes, open-plan dogma is at the root. I'd gladly give up free dog-boarding, massages, and meals for walls and a door.
Retaliation and escalation aren't solutions. Conscientious self-noise-reduction sets the example for others & makes it easier to politely ask the loudies to take their noise pollution out of the common area.
I love mechanical keyboards... similar reasons the author of hte article posted. But I'm OK with the new MacBook keys too -- time and a place for everything, right?
I do appreciate a thin laptop, but when I sit down at my desktop I love having a "real" keyboard tactile feel, as well as a high DPI mouse.
Razer makes great keyboards and mice. Here's what I use.
All the little macro buttons come in handy for various applications too. For example, I use one to type my email address, one to type my phone number -- same as I use shortcuts on my phone (on my phone I type @@ and have my full email show up instead).
I like the silent Razer keyboard, I had a clicky one before, since I often have to type while on the phone or Google Hangouts and having a non-clicky keyboard is just the conscientious thing to do...
Only thing I would like to change: Razer used to have their "professional" series (we're talking like 10 years ago), and instead of being all black and green, they were white and blue... Whatever, at the end of the day if someone wants to talk with me about Fallout or League of Legends I guess it's not a terrible thing... but I do like not advertising "gamer" in a work setting.
I just wish somebody made an MS natural keyboard with mechanical keys and an extra 25 or so programmable function keys (row above normal fn keys, double row of 5 vertical keys to the left of caps/shift/...)
Bought an imac in 2011 and the keyboard that came with it was amazing. I could type like the wind, but unfortunately it was wireless. Within the last year, it started glitching so I started looking for a new one... I wanted a wired one so that I wouldn't have to keep changing the damn batteries. I couldn't find the same version wired, so I took the dive and paid 100 some for a mechanical keyboard. I have cherry brown switches, with backlighting now. It's ok, but I can't type as fast anymore.
there's a really cheap and good mechanical keyboard that's manufactured in India - the TVS E Gold at around 30$. IMHO its the cheapest mechanical keyboard that has the Cherry MX blue keys.
It's a bit odd to compare the MacBook Pro's keyboard to a mechanical keyboard. I mean, mechanical keyboards are great, but laptops with mechanical keyboards are almost nonexistent due to the extreme bulk required. Sure, there are many laptops with far more key travel than Apple's latest offerings, but it's not fair to hold them up to that standard...
He's not. The author is comparing the new MBP keyboard to the old one. The fact that he finds these keyboards so terrible meant that he realised how much he'd love a mechanical keyboard.
It also means that he won't be buying a new Macbook Pro.
It's the total opposite for me. I used mechanical keyboards for over a decade but I'm just much faster and accurate on modern non-technical keyboards. Every now and again I get the nostalgia and hookup one of the many mechanical keyboards I've collected over the years. After about an hour of nostalgia back into a box it goes.
I learned to hunt and peck at a very young age in the 1950s on a mechanical portable typewriter, and have always felt more comfortable with keyboards which have good travel, positive feedback, and loud audible clicking.
To this day I never learned touch typing, and doubt I could. I can't learn foreign languages either. I have a reputation for being the fastest 2-finger hunt and peck typist anyone has ever seen, but I must say a clicky keyboard like the model M makes your apparent speed sound twice as fast as it actually is due to the click on release. A mechanical typewriter doesn't have that.
I am 100% sure My macbook pro keyboard is really damaging my fingers/joints. I stopped coding all day on my macbook because my hands really started to hurt very badly, suffering some sort of RSI.
Then I decided to start coding on my Cooler Master mechanical keyboard to see wether that would give some relieve. Within 2 weeks the pain was completely gone! I now only use my mac keyboard for short messages like this.
I think it's really sad when aesthetics rule over ergonomics, and with the new mac books it only seems to get worse.. Especially the escape key on the oled bar, what idiot made that decision?
I've been using Macs for less than most of you - only 3 years.
However, in that time I have become used to the keyboard shortcuts that come with OSX - CMD + Q for closing _any_ program, copy/paste/cut/etc all using CMD vs CTRL. These have turned out to be _much_ better than what's offered on Windows.
The few times I've grown curious again to try Windows 10, the keyboard shortcuts are absolutely the main reason I jump back to OSX. The terminal can be emulated, there's usually programs on Windows that match what I use on OSX, but the shortcuts, I have been unable to figure that out.
IMHO this is worse than just learning to live with different shortcuts because whenever you walk up to someone else's computer you will experience a moment of confusion as you try to use your remapped keys.
I have this experience frequently with remapping Caps Lock to CTRL.
I cannot type comfortably on anything but MX black or browns, so I wasn't able to use an ergonomic keyboard yet. There's one company in Australia that builds to order ergonomic keyboard with mx keys, but the price is in the same range as HHKB, which makes it hard to order blindly from across the world, and custom built on top, which means hard to send back for quality deficiencies.
Are there other ergonomic keyboards with mx switches?
I'm using a tenkeyless mx black at the moment where I had to insert multiple layers of padding to dampen the echo sound of the pcb on each key press.
The ergodox maybe? Not easy to get hold of though, especially if you want it pre-built (edit: and potentially just as expensive as the HHKB): https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox
I'm not sure what the appeal is personally about mechanical keyboards. As long as I can feel where the keys are so I don't need to look down and feel that I've pressed them I don't understand why you'd want a lot of noise and a lot of travel to the keys. I'm very skeptical about having to work with a touch based ESC key though on the new MacBooks.
> This keyboard makes real noise — more of a clacking than a typing sound but satisfying just the same — and I had forgotten how much I love the noise.
I hope the author realizes that others might not appreciate the sound. I find it very hard to do work when someone else in an office is typing on a buckling spring keyboard.
If you work into an open office it is time to change jobs ... I use mechanical keyboards as a management deterrent when they try to move me from remote work to on premise.
I work remotely and one of my coworkers still manages to annoy everyone with her mechanical keyboard - whenever there's a Skype meeting, it overpowers what everyone is saying and she has to mute, then forgets to un-mute...
I don't think you understand what the author saying. The author is saying that the new keyboards are terrible, and when he realised why he thinks they're terrible he went out and bought a mech keyboard.
He's sad that Apple are choosing this new keyboard technology for the MBP range, and from what I gather, he won't be purchasing a new Macbook Pro.
Mechanical keyboards are overrated. They're great, don't get me wrong - and I've used them for years - but they are not the end all be-all to everything your fingertips will press down.
I've actually given up on my Cherry MX Brown DAS and switch to a Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop and it's absolutely fantastic. The design is odd at first, but after using it for a few hours I realized that the way I thought about mouse and keyboard ergonomics has been wrong my entire life until now. The pain and finger fatigue that I'd started to feel from the mechnical keyboard and gaming mouse I'd been using as my daily drivers simply vanished after just under a day of standard use. It really is a thing of beauty.
I've done the same transition. I used to love my keyboard with Blues but it never quite solved the problem for me and is too noisy to use at work. I then also realized that the position and angle of the hands and wrists is probably more important then the type of keys.
After I tried the sculpt keyboard it has become my new daily driver both at home and work.
I'll have to give another spin at MS wavy layouts. I fell in love with ThinkPads and old school keyboards. My view is biased by music. Guitar and pianos are straight, but with time you shift how you use your hands/fingers to allow fun on it. I do think it's the same for keyboards. But maybe I'm wrong.
Have you considered eBay? Mechanical keyboards are durable so used is likely to be worthwhile. I got my Kinesis for $170, which is much less than the new price.
You can buy the Ergodox EZ pre-built, which is a nice split mechanical keyboard. If the price is too high, there are people on r/mrchmarket who are selling ones they've built using generic parts for half of that price, sans keycaps. Either way there are split mechs out there.
I hate the new Apple keyboard, too. The full-height left and right arrow keys (they used to be half-height) have broken a 15-year old muscle memory. I'm tempted to carve them out.
So? I adore the buttery smooth feeling and even more so the consistency of all switches: blues are super inconsistent in sound if you pay attention and browns feel like there's sand in the switches.
Just curious, how do you get molds made, and is it injection molding or something else? I always thought it was ridiculously expensive to do custom molds.
No. I have a waterproof nec terrain. The headphone jack only has a simple non watertight flap to keep dust out. While every other orifice has rubber seals. I think mfgrs have figure out waterproofing headphones long ago.
I don't know how to tell this, but I had this realization immediately. I didn't understand why everyone is praising almost gummy keyboard, where mechanical is the sh*t. Anyhow, those gummy ones are not without it's qualities, but I totally get what you are saying.
I for example stopped buying ipads when they switched from wide connector to small one. Just didn't feel like having another set of connectors and stands. Those ipads still work, and I still use old cables. I yell at kids not to break them, because aftermarket cables will not charge ipads (devious apple).
I just want alternatives, I am not against Apple, it sucks lately, but we should have MSs and Apples, but strive to go towards Linux and open source.
But, as soon as my IBM Model M keyboard stopped working last month, it really bothered me (it was my fault for spilling coffee on it). So I got my backup Cherry MX Blue keyboard from Rosewill (also a nice mechanical keyboard for only $60 or so) and then proceeded to take apart my IBM keyboard in the evenings, to see how it works and fix it. I just got a new membrane for it and am doing what's called a "bolt mod" replace plastic rivets in it with bolts.
It is completely irrational spending all this time on it, but it am really attached to that particular keyboard.