I feel like the only thing that he campaigned on was hurting black/brown people and repealing the ACA. Everything else, every other policy topic was met with "I have the best people" or "I will have the best advisors." He constantly, falsely, repeated how bad black people have it in inner cities. How we can't go anywhere without the fear of being shot and killed by other black people. He touted the need for a nation-wide stop and frisk program, something deemed wildly ineffective by anyone who looked at the data. He demonized muslims EVERY chance he got. Every. Single. One. Remember the whole Khizr Khan incident? He is still trying to build a wall that will be costly and ineffective.
It is very difficult, if not impossible, to have any good will for people who voted for him. Especially the "I voted for you, but you're doing X" people. EVERYONE seen how hateful his campaign was. There isn't a sensible person who looked at it and thought otherwise. However, there are a lot of people who witnessed what he was doing and thought "it won't hurt me though" and were absolutely okay with him and his hateful approach to "making America great"
Fuck them
I know people, aside from myself and my family, that are already hurting because of his policies. And now when he gets whatever form of that nationwide stop and frisk going, it won't be white kids harassed by law enforcement, it will be my suburban black son and his friends.
You can miss me with the "not all voters" bull because every single one of them are complicit in how things are going now. Those people NEED to be called out. They need to be shown and constantly told that they made the WORST choice. I don't care about their feelings when the person that they voted for policies will criminalize me and a lot of people that I care about. Again, fuck their feelings
This is the same flavor of bigotry and ignorance that leads people to believe that all immigrants or black people are dangerous criminals. Not everyone who voted for Trump supports all of his positions. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of his voters disagree with the majority of his positions, such is the nature of a two-party system.
How is me saying "fuck people who voted for bigotry because it won't affect them" a "flavor" of bigotry?
Are you saying that white Americans would had been okay with Obama campaigning on harsher policing for white people and their kids because he also spoke about lowering taxes or giving everyone access to healthcare?
You people keep coddling these bigots or bigot-ajecent people and telling us, the people most affected, to treat them with kid gloves. No that doesn't make any sense. Talk to the openly bigoted/bigot-sympathizers about their behavior and beliefs. Don't come to me asking me asking me to see beyond the stuff that hurts me and the people I love because they were promised jobs
> How is me saying "fuck people who voted for bigotry because it won't affect them" a "flavor" of bigotry?
Because you are indiscriminately labelling all Trump voters as racists.
> Are you saying that white Americans would had been okay with Obama campaigning on harsher policing for white people and their kids because he also spoke about lowering taxes or giving everyone access to healthcare?
I do believe many white Americans would still have voted for him, if they felt the alternative was worse or felt like harsher policing was a small price to pay for universal healthcare.
> You people keep coddling these bigots or bigot-ajecent people and telling us, the people most affected, to treat them with kid gloves.
In my defense, I'll probably be more affected than you (e.g. I stand to lose my visa if Trump does re-negotiate NAFTA like he said he would). I'm also what you might call an anti-nationalist and am generally in favor of free movement across borders. Still, I can see valid, non-racist, reasons people might have voted for him.
Finally, I'm not trying to coddle people who voted for Trump. I don't want you to show them good will or have sympathy for them. I just want you to be more rational about this because I'm tired of seeing Americans talk past each other. People who voted for Trump did so for a variety of reasons and while you might not convince the racists amongst them, you might still have a chance of gaining support from the rest (if you stop insulting them).
The man openly campaigned on the premise of "keeping certain muslims out of the country" and it is snowballing to even affect you. But you want to worry about labeling the people who voted for that as racist.
I wish you the best, I really do. I hope the pressures from silicon valley and the people change things for the better, but we'll see how that plays out. If this first week is any indication of the next four years, we're in for a constant bombardment of our sensibilities. Daily they will say something that we know is a lie or put forth something that will hurt people and say it doesn't. Pretty soon we'll be thinking "am i the crazy one?"
I have an Iranian friend whose parents are visiting and they'll be leaving soon. If this ban becomes the norm there is a good chance he'll either never see them again or never be allowed back into this country where he came for a better life.
I choose not to sympathize with those who constantly put people in power to oppress me and my loved ones. Again, fuck them and fuck him too.
>How we can't go anywhere without the fear of being shot and killed by other black people.
I'm not from the US but this really looks awful. I wouldn't set foot on this city even if you paid me a million dollars.
http://crime.chicagotribune.com/
I know many people who live in that city, very happily and safely. The comment is ignorant and it's important we don't, in our ignorance, connect skin color with other personal characteristics; it leads to very bad outcomes that hurt many people.
You know what is easy? Looking at the data now and coming to a conclusion that you believe to be sound. What is difficult is doing a little research to figure out how Chicago got the way it is. How gang culture took hold. How it was passed down from generation to generation. What policies were put into place that caused people to turn to illegal activities. Do a little research and try to get a full picture. Everyone agrees that crime, especially violent, should not be the norm in any place be it Chicago, Aleppo, or some random Brazilian city, but you need to understand how and why it got there before you give your final judgement.
Although not directly related to crime rates in Chicago, 13th by Ava DuVernay is a wonderful documentary on Netflix regarding mass incarceration of minorities as a new means of racial segregation.
As a resident of that very city, I thank you for not bringing your bigoted behind here. Stay away, please.
Edit: okay, that was not a great thing for me to say. Sorry. I'm just fed up with the repeated vilification of a great American city by the buffoon-in-chief. Yes, violence in the city is a big problem, but it's hardly its defining characteristic.
Yes, don't worry--I'll stay away from a city that has 250 property crimes and 80 violent crimes every day while those in power keep looking the other way to be politically correct.
Chicago is a huge city. Yes, it has a crime problem. Yes, "something" needs to be done. That doesn't mean policies like Trump's are necessarily the right ones. I've visited Chicago. It was a beautiful and wonderful place, and I did not have any fear.
>Yes, don't worry--I'll stay away from a city that has 250 property crimes and 80 violent crimes every day while those in power keep looking the other way to be politically correct.
Wonderful. Stay away from the world-leading food and culture scene as well. More for the rest of us.
>That'll end when Trump sends the Feds as he's promised on Twitter, though
Under what authority? And which Feds are we talking? Just more delusional talk.
Yes, there's problems in Chicago. But the violence is heavily concentrated in the South and West side. I live in a nicer part of Chicago and I've never felt like I was in any danger where I live. Even walking home by myself at 2 AM.
Every city has bad and good areas. Chicago is no different.
Cities in the US seem particularly polarized. Where I grew up there were neighborhoods with better off and worse off people but there wasn't any part of town where you would feel uncomfortable or at risk of violence walking at any time, day or night. I visited Chicago in the early 90's and I remember being told never to go past a certain stop on the train. The US has serious social problems going back a long time and I'm not sure trying to pretend otherwise will help in solving them.
France overall has a murder rate of 1 per 100K. Paris I believe is slightly above average. Chicago is something like 15.
I wouldn't necessarily consider Paris to be some sort of golden standard either. You should aim for much better.
If you feel that having an x15 murder rate isn't "standing out" and it's just that you've got some bad neighborhoods than IMHO you're deluding yourself.
EDIT: And assuming the murders are not evenly spread out but rather focus in the "bad" neighborhoods is support for the polarization argument. We can look at some stats but I'm pretty sure they would support my notion that the bad neighborhoods in US cities are much worse than the bad neighborhoods in safe cities worldwide. Try comparing violent crime statistics of major US cities to major European cities over 50 or 100 years. This didn't start yesterday.
EDIT2: Don't take all this to mean I support Trump's rhetoric or actions on this topic. I do not. But I do think Americans need to do some introspection here
I have difficulty comprehending your follow up remark. If it is smaller than both those cities AND has more murders than both combined AND there are some safe neighborhoods, it seems obvious on the face of it that the polarization there must be pretty seriously extreme.
Regardless of how others are behaving, it's never okay on HN to express yourself this way. Please keep things civil and substantial, or refrain from commenting.
So, I very much agree with emehrkay, but you should probably deliver the same admonition to emehrkay for the way they chose to phrase their sentiment. "Fuck you" and "fuck them" are the same when you're one of the "them".
So I wouldn't be too far off saying that this part of what I wrote describes you:
> However, there are a lot of people who witnessed what he was doing and thought "it won't hurt me though" and were absolutely okay with him and his hateful approach to "making America great"
It is very difficult, if not impossible, to have any good will for people who voted for him. Especially the "I voted for you, but you're doing X" people. EVERYONE seen how hateful his campaign was. There isn't a sensible person who looked at it and thought otherwise. However, there are a lot of people who witnessed what he was doing and thought "it won't hurt me though" and were absolutely okay with him and his hateful approach to "making America great"
Fuck them
I know people, aside from myself and my family, that are already hurting because of his policies. And now when he gets whatever form of that nationwide stop and frisk going, it won't be white kids harassed by law enforcement, it will be my suburban black son and his friends.
You can miss me with the "not all voters" bull because every single one of them are complicit in how things are going now. Those people NEED to be called out. They need to be shown and constantly told that they made the WORST choice. I don't care about their feelings when the person that they voted for policies will criminalize me and a lot of people that I care about. Again, fuck their feelings