Thank you. I obviously completely agree; we tried relentlessly to contact our local utilities to gain access to their underground conduit and was never able to get someone on the phone or even much of a response.
I eventually got to the point where I was like, "Fk it, I'll do it on my own." Now we're looking at microtrenching, which is probably an even larger endeavor, but at least we'll own the conduit.
>Now we're looking at microtrenching, which is probably an even larger endeavor, but at least we'll own the conduit.
Hi Chris - good work, inspiring to read. I'm in Bournemouth, UK, and around 10 years ago FibreCity was a company created to attempt to connect all the houses in Bournemouth to FTTH - initially by using sewers, but eventually by microtrenching. I actually had a month's trial (1Gps, which was incredible), but the company folded, and from what I recall the costs were immensely greater than they even thought with the microtrenching; they also managed to P off nearly everyone in the area as they promised very little disruption, but actually led to no difference compared to normal trenching works. Ultimately large parts of Bournemouth now have FTTH which is dark, which is disappointing.
Not trying to put you off, but just mentioning it as a study or worthwhile research - you seem like a good guy doing a good job, so hoped I could contribute something.
Perhaps try reaching out to the B4RN folks to learn some of their lessons. A lot won't apply because UK vs. US but I'm sure some of their experiences might help you avoid problems! https://b4rn.org.uk
Find out as much as you can about your city's regulations. In Madison, WI if your conduit is 3" or larger the city can take ownership of it if they want with zero compensation for the cost you spent to build it out. They will reuse it for utilities, traffic lights, etc. You can still use it, but they own it.
This is why you get an agreement with the city to share their conduit and help each other out where possible. Not sure of the political climate there, but getting on their good side will save you money and time.
What're your thoughts on this idea: internet access is a right and should be treated like a utility. Operators like you and others create supply and then are guaranteed a price or rate as (probably) negotiated by the consortium of suppliers like yourself and others and the local government. And then in return businesses and consumers can rely on (fiber based) internet for a reasonable cost. I personally don't care for this because given a guaranteed stream of income I think incubanants would have little incentive to innovate. I'd rather there be an open and fair market for people like you to come into an underserved market and turn things on its head and lead to innovations like wireless gigabit and other tech. Curious on your thoughts though.
The biggest problem is: where is the money going to come from?
Even if you guarantee a rate of return, somebody still needs to finance the buildout.
Second issue is, how will infrastructure that is installed, but not used be paid for? Take rate is rarely 100%, so who is going to pay for that part and how?
Governments would pay for this via taxes. At least that's one way. So in the end all of us would be paying for internet, and I guess if there were a way to get internet at 1gig up/1 gig down with no data caps that was very reliable for under 100 bucks a month I would do it. But the build-out costs a lot as you've stated so the capital would have to come from somewhere and perhaps that'd come from infrastructure spending.
Depends on the locality; my city just raised taxes to address infrastructure needs in schools and storm sewers. It's probably not a coincidence that they are also looking at municipal fiber.
Unfortunately I happen to agree. Until a disaster happens that the public can be convinced is linked directly to a lack of infrastructure spending I think nothing will happen.
It's not neo-cons. It's liberals too. God forbid we raise water rates so the water utility can replace aging lead pipes--"what will happen to grandma if water rates go up???!"
If you can guarantee a rate of return, getting money from any bank sounds easy. And if take rate is 60%, then those that take the offer have to pay 100%/60%=166% of what they would have payed with a 100% take rate. Of course that requires estimating the take rate, but that's an everyday buisiness problem.
> If you can guarantee a rate of return, getting money from any bank sounds easy.
Sadly this isn't true. Banks lend you money if you have collateral.
> And if take rate is 60%, then those that take the offer have to pay 100%/60%=166% of what they would have payed with a 100% take rate.
That only works if the customers are willing to pay 166%. The shit really hits the fan if you get the take rate wrong and your costs exceed what your customers have agreed to pay.
Chris - I might have an interesting low-cost microtrenching option for you. This company demo'd at a recent TechBreakfast: http://traxyl.com/. I know the founders and they are very motivated to make this work for early customers. Let me know if you want a connection.
You might get more response if you call them and say "Hey, since we haven't heard from you we're going to be trenching in our own conduit. This is a written request for up-to-date maps of where yours is so we can be sure we don't cut anything."
It might not be the response you want, but it may make it more likely that someone will respond.
Become a CLEC. Or, more appropriately, I suppose: look into the benefits that being a CLEC would give you (in this regard) and consider if that's worth it for you.
You don't have to be a CLEC to access right of way, including ducts and poles. It's enough to be a BIAS (Broadband Interner Access Provider), which you already are.
> we tried relentlessly to contact our local utilities to gain access to their underground conduit and was never able to get someone on the phone or even much of a response.
I find that really hard to believe. Go to their offices and ask for the manager.
> I eventually got to the point where I was like, "Fk it, I'll do it on my own." Now we're looking at microtrenching, which is probably an even larger endeavor, but at least we'll own the conduit.
Building your own facilities is no joke. Unless you are made out of money, you'll be far better off putting more effort into renting existing ducts.
Renting duct is $3/ft/year. That's $15,840 per mile per year. That's not including ~$30,000 to contract out the work (I was quoted $7/ft) and $5,000 that the utility charges to have someone on-site to oversee the operation. I've determined we can microtrench ourselves for between $30,000 and $40,000.
I've been on contact with another ISP, https://tsi.io who has successfully done micro-trenching with very minimal capital. We're doing all of the work ourselves to reduce overhead.
That website is very cool. It will be really interesting if this catches on. There are a ton of rural customers underserved by DSL or even wireless ISPs.
You might check what the agreement between the utility and the public utility commission is to see if you can have the PUC lean on the utility to provide the data you need.
I've had several meetings with a District Rep, who contacted his government rep at the utility for the area, who leaned into them. They said they would contact me; 3 times, and never did.
