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Ask HN: Declining the job offer after accepting
28 points by gandutraveler on June 23, 2017 | hide | past | favorite | 35 comments
I recently interviewed with major tech company and accepted their offer. Company has already started visa transfer. I like the company, compensation and perks. However just few days back a friend of mine pitched an startup idea to me and I feel strong inclination to join his startup. Now I have to decline offer which I already accepted. I know it is unprofessional but is there a right way to do it ?


Is there a right way? Not really. When you decline post acceptance the company will create a record of this in their applicant tracking system (its a data base) and they will never offer you a job again (because they aren't sure you're going to take it even if they did). The recruiter(s) you worked with at that company are probably contractors. They will move around to other companies in their careers, if you are the in the unlikely situation where you are interviewing at a company and suddenly they decide not to proceed. That could be why. Generally recruiters work with thousands of people, but only a small number of them actually accept an offer and then later just back out. If you are fortunate and don't have a very unique name then it might be a problem but, if there are very few engineers with the same name it can be a bigger problem.

If you are exceptionally unlucky and you decide to not work at this major tech company and then your friend who pitched the startup can't come through. You are doubly in trouble (can't go back and don't have a job) not to mention a partially transferred visa.

The smart thing to do is to take the job at the Major Tech corp, spend a couple of years saving some money and learning what you can, and then joining your friend with the startup if they still look like a viable offer. That strategy maximizes your future value. You have additional work experience, your friend knows that you will stick with your word even when you might not want to, and you will have a bit more knowledge of how well your friend can put together a startup or not.


None of the "good" startups that I know would ever blackball someone for declining an offer after accepting.

I agree with the other commenter - to people reading, this does not apply in many places. Maybe in massive bureaucratic old-school tech firms, but not younger ones like Airbnb etc.


I appreciate you not deleting your comment (so far I've seen two).

It is completely legit to see it differently and to have a completely different experience. All I can relate is what I have seen in the last 25 years in the Bay Area. Having seen the effect in action early in my career (both people opting out after they said they would and other sorts of moves which affected relationships) I sought to understand it and came to my current appreciation of the various points of view.

Before I posted I had checked in with a friend of mine who is a contract recruiter and they seemed to feel my understanding of the situation was both correct and that this effect is fairly universal. It doesn't mean that it is of course. The next time you have a chance to talk with someone, in a safe and informal matter, who is in the hiring 'food chain' of something you consider "good" startup, ask them what they think. Nothing feeds a discussion like good data.


The startup might not, but the recruiter still may. Many startups use recruiters from firms where word spreads like wildfire that you are risky to commissions.


Why are you spreading this FUD about blackballing people? Do you have any proof?


In my experience I've found that every industry is its own little community. This is much like every "interest group" is its own community. Reddit, or HN, are communities.

The tech community has fairly high mobility; people move from job to job through out their career. Often times they will segregate into an even more exclusive sub-community be it 'networking person' or 'security person' or 'language person' etc.

Companies spend a lot of time and money recruiting, training, and evaluating their engineers. These engineers are the "secret" to the success or failure of a company's efforts to execute against their vision and plans so companies spend time and effort to understanding as much as they can about engineers. And when they can't understand enough they count on 'sourcers' or 'recruiters' to understand as much as possible about the engineers.

As I have worked at companies, both large and small, and built up companies from nothing to something. Every single one has encouraged employees to refer their friends knowing that good engineers know other good engineers, and they know bad engineers as well.

As a result of these forces, what emerges for any given industry, is a sort of ranking and rating system for pretty much every participant. There may be six degrees of freedom between any two people in the world, but between two engineers in the same specialty? It often seems it is often 2 or at most 3 degrees. As a result there is a giant sort of collective knowledge about people in the space after they have been in the space for a few years.

Now consider what a company is going through when hiring. The manager may have had to argue with their management to get a hiring requisition 'approved'. They probably interviewed many candidates and had group meetings with the interviewers over plusses and minuses, skills and deficits. They winnowed that set of candidates down to a preferred choice and made them an offer. Which the candidate accepted. It's a successful process and probably the manger tells the team the good news and everyone is looking forward to having some additional help with the project. If the recruiter/hiring person is on contract they are excited because they are looking at anywhere from 10 to 25% of this new hires annual salary as compensation for getting them hired. Perhaps one of the employees in the group made a referral and they are excited that they might be getting a referral bonus.

Now the new employee calls them up and says "Sorry I got a better deal elsewhere so I won't be joining you after all."

The expectations are dashed, the hiring process has to be reset to the initial square, perhaps a strong alternate choice has been missed because when they didn't get the offer they accepted an offer somewhere else. And the recruiter isn't getting their big payday after all.

This lays down a lot more 'hurt' than young engineers can really appreciate early on. And that 'hurt' can, and will, affect their future chances. Is it black balling? Yes? No? Maybe? It is a natural consequence of people being let down they lose trust. The manager, the recruiter, the other members of the team that interviewed this person, all of them now are a walking and talking 'negative signal.' And they will be for possibly several years to come. And since the community is generally more interconnected than you might imagine it is, the chance that at your next job change this event will come out and have an effect. A good team would bring it up and ask about it, but many teams (especially ones where there are many choices) might just move on to a different candidate.


Don't worry about it. You won't be the first nor the last person who changes their mind on a job change, and I promise they have had it happen before. To retract your acceptance you should just need to terse but professional. The general format would be:

- A sentence indicating you're withdrawing your acceptance of the offer.

- One or two sentences explaining you have an unforeseen unique opportunity. No need for great detail.

- One or two sentences thanking them for their consideration, and hope for future opportunities together.

That's really all there is to it. A professional company that values it's people will understand that these things happen in life and will not hold any thing against you.


And don't wait around too long. Try to send the email as soon as you know for sure you're not taking the job, so that they can get back to searching and don't spend too much time and resources getting ready for you.


And tell them you're letting them know you're conscious of their efforts and are informing them ASAP.


That's all there is to it, except for any contractual obligations the employee may have signed on for.


I was working on a startup and we were out of money. I applied for and found another job and let the founder know. On the Sunday before I was to start at the new place, we secured another round of funding, so the first thing I did on Monday was report to my new job and the second thing I did was resign from that job.

New boss was pissed, but it was the right call for me (and I couldn't have done it any earlier).

In your case, I'd give careful thought to the visa issue; I wouldn't sweat it on behalf of the major tech company at all. They've no doubt had worse behavior from candidates and they'll survive the loss. You probably won't be blackballed at that company, but do expect a question about it if you do decide to apply later.


I don't know you, but I strongly feel that you are making the wrong decision.

Let's go over the points...

Your friend pitched a startup idea. Based on your wording, it sounds like it is more an idea than an actual company. Either way, unless your friend's startup has the legal resources to sponsor a H1B visa and the financial capability to pay you a prevailing wage, you run the risk of not being able to transfer your visa. The government agency can reject your visa transfer, as well.

By declining the offer, you are putting yourself in jeopardy of losing your ability to work in the country.

I assume you are not married, but for the sake of this response, let's assume you are. What would your wife think about this? Don't be so selfish, imagine that others would be affected.

You are assuming that you will be able to work at the startup legally (H1B transfer). I don't believe you can assume this. Does your friend even know what is involved in sponsoring a H1B? Major tech companies have dedicated departments for managing the H1B process for their employees.

Good luck!


As a hiring manager I never take it personally if they decline the offer before the start date. There are a few that never mention it till the starting date and at that point feel they were just hanging on for a better offer and wasted my time so personally would never hire them again in the future.


Thats great to know. I am planning to also call the hiring manager and explain myself.


If you have visa issues... how is your friend's cool startup going to help?

Visa issues even pre-trump were hard.

Does your friend have funding?

Does your friend have market validation?

What will happen to you personally if the startup fails - like so many do?


Do it ASAP. Details are mostly unimportant, but be honest.

The more time and money they spend on you before you tell them, the angrier they'll be. They may already have grounds to sue you, although I've never heard of a company doing that in such a situation.


Thanks.I plan to do it on Monday


How can you join a startup (idea stage) on an H1B? Cause make sure you can actually work legally for that startup before doing anything. Technically, you can't unless the startup is already established.


My plan is to join the startup in 4-5 months time frame and only then initiate my H1B transfer. Till then ill continue with my current employer. Any idea on what USCIS looks for in H1B transfers ?


How far did they go with the visa transfer, and what is the situation with the current employer? You shouldn't worry too much about the new company, but instead worry about keeping your current job (and, by consequence, your H1B visa).

Otherwise you may risk losing both, and have to return to your country of origin and start all over again.


Then it's a no brainer. Start with your new employer, then apply to your friend's startup whenever they're ready. So you don't miss an opportunity with the big company. You can transfer your H1B as many times as you want as long as you have at least 6 months remaining on it. They will use premium processing, you can be done in 15 days. Then if you're into your first 3 years on your H1B, they will be able to extend it for 3 more years during the transfer.


I thought USCIS stopped premium processing earlier this year due to backlog.


You are right. The suspension also includes h1b transfer too. I wasn't aware of that.


There is an option called "bridge petition". More risky, but doable.


If you need a visa to work it's probably safer to go with the bigger company. Does your friend realoze they'll have to apply for your visa?


No judgement here. I suggest you check yourself out to make sure this isn't about fear, cold feet, etc.


I did that once. I had asked for a raise and didn't get one. I let my boss know I'd be looking elsewhere. Still didn't get one. Found another job and accepted it and quit the old job which promptly resulted in an offer of a large raise on the old job - larger than the salary at the new place. The old job was right next door to me and the new one across town.

I went to the new place with a huge gift basket and apologized and explained that I wouldn't be starting after all because I got a counter offer I couldn't turn down. They looked stunned. I left. I worked at the old place another several years and ended up rising to Director of Operations before leaving to work on my own company. I still feel bad about it but it was the right decision overall.


I would suggest you keep the job and work on the startup in off hours. Until you have a good idea of how viable the startup will be, just stick at the big company


If you really want to go with the startup, I recommend offering to pay back the money the tech company is spending on doing your visa transfer. This might keep a thin bridge alive between the two of you. Also, make sure the startup knows what is involved in doing a visa transfer, GC after that etc. Good luck!


Renege as you see fit. The employment offer was at-will, right? I accepted and then turned down employee #5 at a multi-billion dollar company and never regretted it and it has never been an issue.


Do it quickly. rip off the Band-Aid


Have you signed a contract?


I signed the job offer. There is no legal obligation in the offer letter to join.


In that case you are free to leave. You'll dissapoint them, but I think many outfits would do the same to you if circumstances changed before the contract was signed.


"At Will" employment cuts both ways.




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