> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school for a variety of reasons (financial, family obligations, etc).
Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: recruiters, even if it's Google maybe you shouldn't assume I want to talk to you and tell me to sign up for a phone call to talk to your sainted ass?) and I have no interest, but the first time I interviewed, when a guy at Google gave me noticeable shade for my filthy state school degree? They could've made a decent bit of money off of me and now that door is likely closed.
I ended up at a no-name school because I got a terrible financial aid package at an elite school that I'd applied to early decision. So bailed and went to a state school for almost free.
Hey, at least you got a response. I got no return mail, not even a rejection letter. 3 tracked mails sent, 3 money orders totaling $120 (a princely sum for 1987), and no return mail. It was like a torture session picking up the mail at the box everyday (I had a break between high school classes, so I was the mailbox keyholder). Luckily, I also applied at the state school and got a pretty good package. Would have been better if my high school had filled out the paperwork on time. Makes me wish I didn't spend so many months studying the SAT & ACT because I was worried that we didn't have the classes that would cover the material at my high school.
Oh well, the local community college classes were only like $15 per credit hour for high school seniors (paid by the high school), so I started college as a sophomore. Gotta take the good with the bad I guess.
>the local community college classes were only like $15 per credit hour for high school seniors
One of the beautiful things about softwars tech is that it has offered people opportunities to self-teach and build a portfolio of their own credentials, by their own determination. This has given ordinary people the opportunity to build things that benefit others.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have privileged rich kids attending Harvard, many of whom go on to work in finance or consulting, and who knows what they produce that is useful in the world.
I would really love to see the idea that we need to open up on the limitations of world-class educations and credentials become part of the mainstream discussion.
There is almost no reason the first two years of, which are often filled with gen-ed requirements often taught in laughably huge lecture halls by uninterested staff, not be open to everyone in the world. We need a new model that promotes this--Harvard classes should be open to everyone and that includes the tests and credits as well.
And why not? The War on Poverty in America has spent trillions of dollars with little to nothing to show for it in terms of reducing poverty. Of all this money spent, one of the first things I would have done would have been to ensure everyone has the greatest opportunities available to them. There's no good reason to hold them hostage, unless you care about profit or prestige more than increasing opportunity and reducing inequality.
Absolutely a great way to do it. I got paid to attend a great state school (above and beyond room and board), had several travel grants, and was sent to 20 countries and Antarctica! I've never had any student loans and it really helped me take some riskier career moves earlier on.
I can't find the link but I recall reading (via Freakonomics or Jeff Selingo?) a study that showed that once you control for SATs and income, attending an elite school doesn't confer as much benefit as merely applying to one.
maybe you shouldn't assume I want to talk to you and tell me to sign up for a phone call
Urgh, this a hundred times over. I get a form e-mail every six months or so from a Google recruiter that says something along the lines of "sorry we missed each other! Find a slot in the attached Google Calendar for us to set up a call"
...no. That attitude straight off the bat makes me not want to go anywhere near the process of applying for a job at Google.
I wonder if there is a competitive advantage to be had there? UMaine is a pretty good system. When I retired, I taught math at UMF for a little while, so I got to see the system from the inside.
UMF has one of the best teaching programs in the country. They even have a CS path that is judged well.
Maybe recruiting at the small State universities is a potential edge?
Not really. We don’t operate in an insanely overpriced metro, so a grossly underpaid person probably takes Home more than the average tech company person out of college.
Nobody is making the big money that elite engineers make though.
I second this, but most google recruiters are pretty terrible. Some are so disrespectful that I have to tell someone to put my profile into google blacklist so they don't bother me anymore.
I don't know what the deal is with some recruiters--I mean, in general. I attended a recruiting event from the US gov near graduation, approached one booth and introduced myself. A friend came over and inquired about a job to which she said "oh, well that's for the creme de la creme" and turned away without asking him anything about himself!? I found that incredibly rude.
Geeze, I wish I had her psychic powers /s.
Personally I think it has to do with the problems of giving people power and authority over others...
In the first year after graduation, I get emails from (different) google recruiters pretty much every month. One thing I see multiple times is they include a "best work place ranking" link and google is ranked #1. One time, after I said I'm not interested, the recruiter replied something like "why don't you give this a try? Best case scenario you work at the best company in the world. Worst case scenario you stuck at your current position." I remember she did use the word "stuck" and that just triggers me.
Google's interviewing process is incongruously uneven compared to the rest of the company, which is top-notch. I recommend giving it another thought. (Disclaimer: ex-Googler.)
Google can't offer me anything I want anymore. They could have when I was less experienced, but I have enough in my toolbox that ending up stuck in a Google ecosystem for years and losing my edge would be a net negative.
(I guess there's always the wheelbarrow of money, but they don't really even do that anymore, at least here in Boston.)
There are plenty of other great big tech companies that don’t have as terrible of an interview process and comparable pay.
I don’t know if I’ll ever try applying to Google again, especially after landing at one of their largest competitors & the company investing heavily in the area I am working in.
Why is that I have worked for a big multi national tech company and unless you had passed a 3 day course you where not allowed to interview candidates.
I would have thought that googles Hr would have a better proccess
My theory: Google started by hiring only new grads from Stanford and then a few other top schools.
1. They're only interested in new grads, so experienced people are treated funny; they're outliers.
2. They're only interested in top schools, which act as a pre-filter. Anyone interviewed is probably a good hire anyway, so it doesn't matter whether your process is goofy.
3. We are talking Google. Anyone under the age of 30 is slobbering all over themselves to work for them.
Keep this up for a few generations and their hiring process is permanently wacky.
Yeah, that ride is over. Google's rep is fucked with a lot of top schools anymore. Don't get me wrong; it's still a good company to work for, but getting a job at Google in 2017 is like getting a job at Microsoft in 2007. And the recruiting process is so stupid that the best candidates don't bother.
I'm curious how you reconcile these two facts, given that the rest of the company presumably joined via the interviewing process. Does this uneven process produce consistent results or do you simply weed out the less-than-top-notch hires quickly after hiring them?
I've had a different one contact me repeatedly every 6 months like clockwork for the last 5 years. Of the ~10 I've had one that listened to WHY I wasn't immediately interested and factored that into his future communications. The rest of them came off exactly as the parent comment to yours described.
edit: to clarify what happens, every 6 months it's a new recruiter, and they always ping me multiple times until I respond and tell them what I've told all of them, and they usually (with 1 exception so far) keep pinging the same way.
To clarify, I meant that the person doing the tech interview shouldn't care what school you went to and definitely shouldn't be throwing shade since that just distorts the evaluation.
The early part of the recruitment process is basically a process to get possibly qualified candidates to interview. What it's good for: if you ever want try interviewing at Google again, you can get an interview. I wouldn't expect anything more from it than that; it's pretty impersonal. :-)
> To clarify, I meant that the person doing the tech interview shouldn't care what school you went to and definitely shouldn't be throwing shade since that just distorts the evaluation.
Of course they shouldn't. (I know plenty of people at Google, I've gone through the process a few times, I have an idea.) But...that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and that it isn't cultural.
Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: recruiters, even if it's Google maybe you shouldn't assume I want to talk to you and tell me to sign up for a phone call to talk to your sainted ass?) and I have no interest, but the first time I interviewed, when a guy at Google gave me noticeable shade for my filthy state school degree? They could've made a decent bit of money off of me and now that door is likely closed.