> The main new feature of Vim 8.1 is support for running a terminal in a Vim window.
Well, my first reaction to reading this is that vim doesn't need this. What's wrong with opening another terminal Xorg window (like xterm)? If you're not using Xorg because you're in the linux console or through a ssh connection, what's wrong with terminal multiplexers (like tmux)? If Vim was already started when you realized you wanted a shell, what's wrong with Ctrl-Z to get to the parent process shell or :shell to open a shell subprocess?
Vim is a text editor, but now it seems it's a terminal multiplexer, too.
Something I really like about vim is that it stuck closer to the unix philosophy of doing one thing well and being highly compatible with the rest of the OS environment for more features through the universal interface of text. This makes it seem like it's trying to move closer to emacs's way of doing things by having stuff integrated and being a complete development environment instead of letting the whole orchestra of the OS components be the environment.
> Something I really like about vim is that it stuck closer to the unix philosophy of doing one thing well
You mean relative to Emacs. Because otherwise that belief makes no sense. It's an urban legend that was used as an excuse for Vim's limitations, it has no basis in reality. Zero.
Nor does the "do one thing" slogan match Bram's own goals for the project. Again, it was a rumor passed along and repeated without verification, just like the rumor that Vim supported DOS, OS/2, etc., even though no one had checked whether that was actually true.
Vim has its own blowfish implementation, an internal spellchecker, an 11k LOC plugin called netrw which doesn't follow Vim's own interface conventions. Vim also now has the "LogiPat" plugin which adds yet another way to build regular expressions, hiding Vim's own regex flavor. Vim has builtin NetBeans integration, Sun workshop integration.
> and being highly compatible with the rest of the OS environment for more features through the universal interface of text.
Yes, I was referring to :[range]!, :[range]w !, and :[range]r !.
And yes, I guess I meant relative to Emacs. I see it as the main design dichotomy between them.
However, while vim does have built-in features that go against this ideal, they are extraneous features, not a core part of vim. I guess my post was a rant against adding yet another one of those kinds of features that lead it to be used in a way that departs from the unix philosophy even more.
There's nothing "wrong" with all those things you mentioned. I use tmux literally all the time. I'll likely never use this built in terminal, but I know plenty of people that love this future in neovim. Everybody has different workflow preferences.
As a user of GNU screen, I feel pretty much the same way about this new feature. I feel When developing a new script (Bash, Python, etc.), I often just run something like `w | !python3 %` in command-line mode. I could be wrong (probably am) but I got the impression that the primary motivation for adding this feature was to play catch-up with NeoVim – similar to how asynchronous I/O support was one of the main new features included with Vim 8.
As a sysadmin, I’m not particularly attracted to the “shiny” stuff so I find it interesting to see the directions that the large developer user-base is influencing Vim towards. Also, as a donor to the ICCF, I can vote on new features, so I should probably take a look at the possible options and vote on something that’s more relevant to my own use of Vim.
If I don't want flair, I use vi. Otherwise I want more optional features that I can use to potentially improve my workflows. Context switches between vim hotkeys and tmux hotkeys involve some mental energy I could be using somewhere else.
Where can I find this "terminal debugger plugin"? Btw, terminal can be opened using `:terminal`, in case you're wondering (the release notes should really show how to use the new features).
Nevermind. If you check `vim-use` mailing group release email, you can see that there's `help version8.1` command which discusses the new release in more details.
Well, my first reaction to reading this is that vim doesn't need this. What's wrong with opening another terminal Xorg window (like xterm)? If you're not using Xorg because you're in the linux console or through a ssh connection, what's wrong with terminal multiplexers (like tmux)? If Vim was already started when you realized you wanted a shell, what's wrong with Ctrl-Z to get to the parent process shell or :shell to open a shell subprocess?
Vim is a text editor, but now it seems it's a terminal multiplexer, too.
Something I really like about vim is that it stuck closer to the unix philosophy of doing one thing well and being highly compatible with the rest of the OS environment for more features through the universal interface of text. This makes it seem like it's trying to move closer to emacs's way of doing things by having stuff integrated and being a complete development environment instead of letting the whole orchestra of the OS components be the environment.