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> The ban wouldn't be retroactive, however, so on-site food at companies like Google and Twitter would still be available

Cool, so start-ups lose a potential hiring perk to the incumbents.

(Does anyone know the story behind this bill? Which politicians and restaurants supported it? I’d like to avoid the latter going forward.)



It looks like the Golden Gate Restaurant Association endorsed it[0]. I couldn't find a list of which restaurants are members of the GGRA, but the board of directors[1] includes people from the Bluestem Brasserie, San Francisco Soup Company, Ladle and Leaf, Extreme Pizza, Rose's Cafe, Wayfare Tavern, Souvla, Canela, Palm House, The Dorian, and Perry's.

[0] https://sf.eater.com/2018/7/25/17614570/san-francisco-corpor...

[1] http://ggra.org/about/board-of-directors/


If the goal is to help restaurants, wouldn't a better approach be to build more housing so that:

1) There are more people in the areas with offices who are around to eat dinner. Therefore, restaurants aren't so dependent on the lunch money of office workers.

2) Restaurant workers can get cheaper rent and therefore restaurants can find staff more easily.


Not in their SF.


Thanks, This is a list of places I will try to actively never go again.


The GGRA includes nearly every significant restaurant in the Bay Area. Hope you like cooking.

Your position is something like, “Man this Donald Trump guy is f’in horrible. Give me a list of all Americans so I can remember to never talk to them again.”


But he mentioned just the list of board-member-related restaurants.

The position is more like: "Man I hate Donald Trump, I'm going to boycott his daughters clothing line"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/07/24/ivanka-tr...


This is such a shitty move, FAANG should buy all of them, and then just shut them down for good.


No, they should react much worse than that. If you buy the businesses out, you're handing them a financial reward for their obnoxious regulatory behavior.

All of the tech workers should boycott the restaurants involved in this political move. Tech workers in the bay area control most of the volume of high-end consumer spending (ie a lot of workers making a lot of money). It would decimate the targeted restaurants instantly.



>Cool, so start-ups lose a potential hiring perk to the incumbents.

They could just do something similar to what colleges do:

- increase salaries just a bit

- but the increased salary goes to a food card

- employees can't easily turn this into cash

- you swipe it and "pay"

- the company is essentially paying for the employee's food

Money changes hands, but no one is at a net loss than what a free food perk would cost.


The benefit of a company cafeteria is mostly that you don't lose half an hour walking to a restaurant, waiting in line, ordering etc.

It's not about the money.


This. This is the giant disconnect between muni govnerment planners and tech.

They literally cannot fathom that people in tech are trying to squeeze the most from every minute in the day.

Just. Do. Not. Get. It.


> squeeze the most from every minute

Don't do that. It hurts. You.


On a good day, I work about 5 hours a day. That's non stop, from about 10.30 until about 4pm, or from about 3pm to 8pm.

If I stop for lunch, I stop, and don't get back into it.

So I eat lunch at my desk. It's not bad for me. 10 hour days to accomplish half the work is bad.


Why not just skip eating for those hours? Digestion disturbs brain activity anyway.


Because it is hard to be effective at work when you are hungry


If you stop eating at a certain period every day, you'll stop feeling hungry.


Sometimes I'll get into 'productive' first thing, at 10amish. Other times it takes a few hours, so it's random.

Once I get into productive mode I'd rather not get out of it until I'm finished, and leaving my desk for more than a few minutes, or having to concentrate of complex tasks like talking to someone at a counter, is sure to do that.


you might stop feeling hungry, but you'll then get mysterious headaches or a sense of confusion and frustration you can't identify.


Eat a lot before? 5 hours seems like very doable without hunger.


You can split the work and do the rest next day, there is no rush, really.


There is rush. Tell that to people who die because medical technology is delayed years. Or companies that fail or never materialize because the products take too long to produce and are too expensive.

Tell that to the farmer who's crops go bad.

Not everything is the same.


FAANG companies don't do any of those things.


But dying with overworking, depression and burnout is not a solution I believe.


5 hours a day doesn't sound like overworking.


While I'd love to only work 2 hours a day, it's not really feasible.


> The benefit of a company cafeteria is mostly that you don't lose half an hour walking to a restaurant, waiting in line, ordering etc.

Instead you can spend that time being both grateful and productive


You can order by phone or online in advance so you only have to walk to the restaurant to pick up your food. Maybe you don't like the walking, but then think again: it has been shown many times that some physical movement during the working day is beneficial for your productivity and health.

If you really want to avoid leaving the building at all costs, there is also another option: ordering your lunch and let it be delivered.


Why are you assuming there even are restaurants near the office? A bunch of people getting into their cars and clogging up roads at lunch time doesn't sound like an improvement to me.


We’re talking about SF, so unless your office is in Bayview/Visitacion/deep Outer Sunset|Richmond there’s a restaurant within 15 minutes walk


> within 15 minutes walk

So, a half-hour round trip.


Yes, assuming a standard stride length of 0.7 metres and favourable traffic conditions, each lunch attendee could be expected to achieve 2900 steps. If travelling as a group there could be a minor social interaction every 4-10 steps thus leading to over 700 conversational actions which may help build camaraderie, strengthening team bonds and inproving the overall efficiency of the team.


But is not it really a one hour break? Besides eating, shouldn't you rest a bit during a day? I guess companies with onsite cafeterias trying to squeeze every minute from their employees.


Yes, it's not about the money. It's about slavery. Tech giants want their workers to spend as much time as possible near their working places. Even during their lunch time when people are supposed to get some rest from their jobs, walk to the nearby restaurant, maybe meet some new people instead of those faces they see every f'ng day. NO! Facebook, etc. don't allow any distraction. They wrap slavery in shiny candies and give it to employees who are so happy that they are bragging about sushi, whatever to instagram. The new regulations are going to break that and that's perfect!


I've read a number of definitions of slavery coming from a variety of political perspectives. Some go so far as to term hiring anyone who isn't independently wealthy to work for wages "slavery".

None of them included giving employees perks in the hope that it will increase their productivity.


They definitely want to increase your productivity, you are right. Your productivity drives their revenue forward. They are willing to contribute small amount of that revenue for giving you free food. But do you really want to be like that? Work harder for free food?


I don't think the purpose of free food is to incentivize employees to work harder. It's to let employees have lunch in the office without having to leave. As mentioned several times in the comments here, employees at companies that provide this option tend to like it.


it is to make employees have lunch in the office without letting them leave.


None of these tech companies make anyone eat the lunch and they certainly let employees leave. Do some research before posting.


Indeed they don't lock employees inside the building. Indeed it's far from slavery. It's wrong word. Rather it's exploiting of employees by using cheap tricks.


> giving employees perks in the hope that it will increase their productivity

By "their", you mean the company? Because employees receive the same salary no matter their productivity.

Slavers also fed their slaves, property requires upkeep costs.


> Because employees receive the same salary no matter their productivity.

No, in fact they typically do not. Drop your productivity to zero and see how your salary holds up.


If I waste less time at lunch, I can go home earlier. That's pretty far from slavery.


This is what I do. I spend negligible amount of time for lunch by bringing the food from home, quickly microwaving it, eating as quickly as possible. But, I am pretty sure that free food takes much longer. You want to try this sushi and that fried ice-cream..oh wait and Philz Coffee offers new beans..there are also your co-workers around and you chat with them endlessly.


What words would you have left if you ever encountered real slavery?


yes, wrong word, should have been used "exploiting" instead.


Problem is the employee is taxed on those funds AND those funds aren’t tax deductible for the employer like dine in (50%) or in house food (100%) so it’s nowhere near comperable.


It sounds reasonable that the richest industry/workers in the area don't get free perks at the expense of other taxpayers.

Non-financial compensations are taxed in many countries, I really don't see what's wrong here.


You just summoned the libertarians haha


Money paid to employees in this way is tax-deductible to the employer, same as the rest of the employee’s salary is.

(It is worse for the employee, of course.)


This would make demand less elastic, pushing restaurant prices up for the rest of us.


Absolutely. This will increase demand and raise prices.


Would this card be used at the company cafeteria, or at local restaurants?

If it's the former, then I think it's still "free food".

If it's the latter, then it removes much of the benefit of the company providing the meal -- keeping employees on-campus and near their desks longer. I like my company's free food since it's easy to walk down the hall and eat a quick lunch between meetings, no need to take an hour to head off campus to a local restaurant. I don't care that the food is "free", but that it's fast and convenient.


Convenient for the company.


And for the employees. I don't want to pack a lunch or go seek out a restaurant every day to pick up food. I know that eating at work means I'm spending lunch time in the office, but by spending less time at lunch, I can leave the office earlier. I'm sure it's a net-win for the company -- if an employee is in the office for an extra 15 minutes since they got a "free" lunch, then the meal is more than paid for (assuming tech-worker salaries)


Why jump through all those hoops, instead of stopping at "increase salaries"?


Depending on legislature, it can be a win-win situation.

Example: Currently living in Switzerland, which has "Lunch cheques" [0]. Employees don't pay income tax on their value, employers don't pay social security on their value, local restaurants/takeaways get more customers.

[0] https://www.lunch-check.ch/en


That's a "win-win" if you just take these particular employees and their company into account. It's a net loss for the state and the rest of its citizens however.


The title could almost be: "Large tech companies lobby local officials to allow them to offer exclusive employment benefits."


Is that what happened? Did large tech companies advocate for this?

Or is that a conspiracy theory?


I can tell you what I learned from my undergrad econ professors. Every time you see regulations that look like they hurt an industry, you will inevitably find the biggest player in said industry pushing for it. For large companies, the cost of compliance is a smaller percentage of their total costs than for smaller companies, and so it acts as a moat for smaller players trying to break into the industry, effectively reducing competition, and keeping prices high.

So, conspiracy theory or not, it's very plausible that the large established players had a hand in drafting this law.


I admit this is pure speculation. There are mentions in another article[1] that some restaurant associations supported it:

>The measure has the support of Gwyneth Borden, executive director of the Golden Gate Restaurant Association and other local merchants.

It seems suspicious that before the legislation is even introduced exceptions have been carved out for the existing big companies.

[1] http://www.sfexaminer.com/supervisors-move-ban-workplace-caf...


If they tried to take the cafes away from existing tech employees, they would have a riot on their hands. Googlers and Facebookers would burn the city to the ground. It is an intensely beloved part of the job.


If those employees can act in concert like you suggest, they could form an union.


Why do you think that's something any of those employees desire? They make significantly more money, have more benefits, and likely work fewer hours than any union employees in the US. Additionally, unions in the US tend to base pay on seniority rather than any kind of merit, which is a huge turn-off for ambitious people.


You realize actors work in a union?


You realize actors do not do well on average right?


> Googlers and Facebookers would burn the city to the ground.

At most, they would make a website with a little game featuring an animation of the city burning down, then giggle and and share it with each other, all the while deaf to the irony that, in reality, they already are burning it down; they just can’t see it. The disconcern behind your whining threat exerts, on the broader population, a blunt misery of slow-burning economic torture the likes of which the tech worker’s comforts will not afford them to perceive. A real fire would at least offer closure and hope amidst a new beginning. This one just keeps blistering.


Spicy. The fundamental problem is that a lot of people have jobs that pay a lot of money, I take it. You seem very upset about this.


There is a disconnect here. When you make 10 times more money at Google than the average American and then start threatening to "Burn google down" if the free lunches go away, it looks like a scene from a different world to a low-skilled worker.

A bit of decency from some of the best paid employees in America would go a long way. This is not what I see in the arrogant, know-it-all attitude of most Googlers though.


Probably not a conspiracy theory. Just an inevitable "if you can't beat em, join em" sort of mentality. For big companies regulation is generally easier to build loopholes into than fight.


Technically grandfather clauses are about spreading out the confrontation to sneak policy through.

But sometimes it looks a lot like collusion.


Politicians either don't give a shit about startups because they don't fill their campaign coffers or just plain don't understand the ecosystem. Techies need to take over Bay area politics.


I would really love to see techies take over, only to see them forced to acknowledge the misery they usually turn a blind eye on.


Techies have been trying to fix the disaster that is SF for a long time. They're very clearly not turning a blind eye. They're being politically obstructed by the long entrenched, old elite that control the political class.

There are only two possible solutions: take the action up several levels financially and get extremely bellicose; or wait until the owners of the political class in SF age out and lose their control.


> Cool, so start-ups lose a potential hiring perk to the incumbents.

I don't think catering startups that coordinate with local restaurants (e.g ZeroCater and Chewse) will be affected.


The goal is to keep the employees in the building.


Chains are pretty cheap bought in bulk


I get that this is an issue close to the heart of people on this site, but if you accept that this is a good law (which of course can be debated), then this is the only realistic way to introduce it. Perhaps they should have included a provision for gradually phasing out the existing cafeterias.

On a slightly off topic note, when your company gets to cafeteria size are you really a startup any more?


>I’d like to avoid the latter going forward.

Awesome idea, thanks!




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