I disagree. The companies in my network (anecdotal evidence) are full with international people. In our office we have nationals from 13 countries. This is the most diverse environment that I have ever seen (including San Francisco). There are some companies however who are hiring strictly Germans, just like with anything else the market will correct these mistakes. This is not the norm but the exception though. I am not sure what you are talking about when saying it is not as open. Renting an apartment is the most difficult part of moving to Munich. It is really bad. There are scammers, people do not want to deal with you if you don't speak German, etc, but this the downside. Getting registered, sorting out bank accounts, internet, mobile phone, socialising and any other aspect of being an ex-pat in Munich is average. The housing situation is the the result of supply and demand imbalance. I have had similar experience in San Francisco when people do not even reply to my email when I was using my Central European name but they were more than happy to reply to Steve. There are several options to mitigate that, you can just move to a smaller town around Munich the train connection is pretty good. Were you referring to the housing situation?
> The companies in my network (anecdotal evidence) are full with international people. In our office we have nationals from 13 countries. This is the most diverse environment that I have ever seen (including San Francisco)
I'll probably get downvoted for saying this, but it's important enough that I need to: country of origin is a completely meaningless way to measure diversity. Especially in Europe, where most countries are comparable to the size of individual states in the US and are relatively racially homogeneous, national origin doesn't measure anything meaningful.
The problem with Munich is that, like Bavaria as a whole[0], it is incredibly racist. Specifically, if you look Muslim, Arab, or Middle Eastern, you're in for a really rough time. This shouldn't be too surprising if you look at recent trends in German politics, and specifically in Bavarian politics.
I wouldn't hold Berlin up as a gold standard here by any means, but it's far better than either Frankfurt or Munich in this regard.
[0] less so than the rest of Bavaria, but more so than any other comparable city in Germany
>Especially in Europe, where most countries are comparable to the size of individual states in the US
I understand what you are saying, but having travelled around the US, mostly for business but some for pleasure, there are remarkable and under-appreciated differences among the states. I would go so far as to say that my state, Washington, and its neighboring Canadian province of British Columbia, have more in common culturally, socially, and economically than say, Washington state and Florida. Within Germany itself, which is approximately the size of Oregon, I found that there are also significant religious, cultural, and linguistic differences even still today. So I'm not sure that we can easily discard the differences that come from borders or geography, even within a small area.
Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks.
People will hate you if you ask for an Alt Bier in Munich...
Seriously, though. I think you make a very strong point, which I’d like to call “resolution effect”. If you look at that something like the US from far away things look petty similar. However, once you zoom in patches appear and suddenly homogenity is replaced by heterogeneity. People tend to forget that easily. Conversely, I never felt more European than during my two years in the States
> Silly case in point - it's been a few years, but you go to Frankfurt and ask for an alt beer, you get served. You ask for an alt beer in Munich, you get funny looks.
If this is what you think is remotely relevant in a conversation about a "diverse environment", I'm not sure what more can be said.
> Case in point the old joke about the biggest divide between Israelis and Palestinians being the way they pronounce “hummus.”
Yeah, so... that's a really offensive thing to say.
I know you don't live there, but if you're trying to prove that Munich is both ethnically diverse and not a place where Arab and Muslim people experience significant racism (which are two separate points), you really could not be hurting your own case any more.
Look, my own experiences are that Bavaria is like the American South - politically conservative, racist, xenophobic. Even as a white, straight, German-speaking male I have had some scary experiences there. By your commentary, I gather perhaps you have perhaps been a target of racism, which is of course incredibly disappointing. The rise of right-wing, xenophobic groups with the obvious history of 20th century Germany is shocking.
That said, none of my previous comments above were commentary on Munich. If you'd read carefully, my original statement was that there can be remarkable diversity even in a small geographic area, where I attempted to give examples of diversity than extend beyond race. The world is a richer place when we have a mix of gender, religion, language, culture, politics, and thought, and yes too, the wonderful spectrum of skin tones, eye color, hair, etc.
I also pointed out that lumping the United States together is a common fallacy. Case in point - you live in New York, I live on the West coast, and these two areas have very different cultural practices in the large, before we start talking about sub-cultures. I'd tell a great joke about the difference between the west coast and east coast, but you'd likely find reason to take offense at it as well, which ironically is the gist of the joke.
My quote about hummus came from a documentary on the history of the middle east conflict, where I have also heard similar statements made by Israelis I have known personally. One of the wonderful things about diversity is that for open minded people, we can seek areas of common ground in our diversity, and frankly food has been a way to break down barriers between people, for like, centuries perhaps millennia.
So hey, you want to take offense because you like being offended, enjoy.
Totally, people from Romania are the same that people from Netherlands. Only minor differences like history, culture, language, life expectancy, religion, etc. are different. :)
Btw. I did not say that all 13 nationals are from Europe, in fact they are from: India, Pakistan, Algeria, South Africa, Australia and United States. They did not have a rough time to come to Munich and they love it here, have kids, speak German and integrated into the society more than I am (I am from Europe). I am not sure how they managed to dodge the racist Bavarians.
Great anecdotal experience. Now have a look at the wikipedia facts:
In July 2017, Munich had 1.42 million inhabitants; 421,832 foreign nationals resided in the city as of 31.12.2017 with 50.7% of these residents being citizens of EU member states, and 25.2% citizens in European states not in the EU (including Russia and Turkey).[16] The largest groups of foreign nationals were Turks (39,204), Croats (33,177), Italians (27,340), Greeks (27,117), Poles (27,945), Austrians (21,944), and Romanians (18,085).
The largest foreign resident groups by 31.12.2017[17]
I'm not sure what you think you're trying to prove with those numbers. Aside from the fact that nationality and race are not the same thing and cannot be conflated in this context, those numbers don't mean anything.
40% of people from Mississippi are black. That doesn't mean that they don't face serious racism in Mississippi, from everyday life to their own elected officials.
The amount of immigrants in any environment is a great indication if people are racist or not.
Blacks are not immigrants in Mississippi, they did not need to make a decision to move to a new country. If Bavarians are so racist how come we have so many immigrants in Munich?
> The amount of immigrants in any environment is a great indication if people are racist or not.
No, it's not at all. There are plenty of highly racist and toxic places where people still immigrate despite the racism, for other reasons. That doesn't negate the racism.
> If Bavarians are so racist how come we have so many immigrants in Munich?
"If Bavarians are so racist against Arabs and so Islamophobic, why are there so many Turks, Croatians, Italians, Greeks, Poles, and Romanians in Munich?"
