I hear you, and have similar experiences with some family and some friends/colleagues. You probably also hear people bringing up anecdotes about someone in Canada waiting for 9 months for a hip replacement. Primary difference is that, in many cases, Canadians with enough money can get a procedure done elsewhere (or privately) at their own expense. Wait 9 months, and there's no out of pocket costs to you. US - you may still have to wait months anyway, and you may end up with debt you will carry for years.
Almost all of those in that list are fear-based, and fear is a big emotion. I don't know how you get past that, but the 'freedom' factor somehow should be focused on.
Freedoms to bring up:
* The freedom to move between employers and not have to concern yourself with tying your ability to get specific health service based on an employer's ability (or whim).
* The freedom to move geographically and not be concerned that you won't be able to afford access to health services. My own health insurance has a decidedly different monthly premium based on county, and I'd be saving probably $150/month if I lived 3 miles to the south.
* The freedom to start your own business (purportedly the backbone of 'US conservative thinking') without worrying about crippling debts.
Right now, instead of an elected/representative Congress controlling what services/procedures/medicines you have access to, you have a for-profit private company, with no recourse to change their leadership or focus via election/recall. "Vote with your feet" is basically impossible in this system.
"Insurance" is an odd product in this space too, at least for basic health care. Insurance is typically something we might get to reduce our exposure to risk for activities we engage in which are voluntary. Choose to buy a car? Get some insurance to help cover replacement costs, or incidental costs to others you may harm. Buying a house? Or renting? Get insurance to help cover replacement costs of things. You can choose to not buy a car, or a house. No one chooses to be born.
Untie anything related to medical care from employment. By what measure is tying someone's ability to access healthcare to the beneficence of their employer remotely morally good? Someone has no employment (through whatever or no fault) and we decide that they are somehow fundamentally unworthy (or perhaps just 'less worthy'?) of access to health services?
What never seems to get talked about after "your taxes will go up!!!" is "other things you pay for will go down!". Employer paying $1000/month for your health insurance policy? That expense will go away, and they'll either pay you more with that money or pay more in taxes.
> Untie anything related to medical care from employment. By what measure is tying someone's ability to access healthcare to the beneficence of their employer remotely morally good? Someone has no employment (through whatever or no fault) and we decide that they are somehow fundamentally unworthy (or perhaps just 'less worthy'?) of access to health services?
Good comment a consultant we hired said. He and his wife had insurance for 25 years, then lost their jobs. Then his wife needed surgery.
It's a dick outcome when someone pays in for 25 years for a service and then gets denied because the economy tanked and they got laid off.
yep. I've 'paid in' more than $100k in premiums in my lifetime to various insurance plans. And a similar amount in FICA taxes, at least. I would prefer all of that having gone in to a system which I could utilize even during times when I couldn't pay in.
You've done an excellent job explaining all the downsides of our current system. You have not explained why universal health care is the only way to solve those problems.
Employer-tied health insurance is also my main irritation with the current system. How you feel about the health insurance situation in America is directly tied to how large / well off your employer is.
I think that would be the most painful change to healthcare in America, but I don't think anything can improve until it happens.
Universal healthcare is a goal and a problem to be solved, not a plan in and of itself. There are many ways to achieve it that have been successfully practiced in many other countries. If you genuinely want an explanation instead of playing the tired old "just asking a question" rhetorical dodge, then I suggest you research how all the other countries are managing to cover most or all of their citizens for a nominal cost. Participate in the solution.
And they also don't tie (through culture and regulations) access to health insurance (and therefore care) to employment situations.
Really... break ties between "employment" and "health insurance". It's a massive distortion of the 'free market', which is typically a conservative crowing point.
You dont need socialized medicine to solve the problems you state.
> The freedom to move between employers and not have to concern yourself with tying your ability to get specific health service based on an employer's ability (or whim).
It is the government that subsidizes employer insurance (a 260 billion tax subsidy for the richer part of society) and has made it mandatory. Repeal laws and this would naturally stop happening.
> The freedom to move geographically and not be concerned that you won't be able to afford access to health services.
This is not solved by socialized medicine: in a full government control scheme, the government decides where the doctors and hospitals are through the payment model. And the government will pay differently based in location as it already does for federal grants to hospitals.
> The freedom to start your own business (purportedly the backbone of 'US conservative thinking') without worrying about crippling debts.
Just crippling taxes. Its not that the cost dissapears, its that its mandatory to finance it with taxes.
Nowhere did I or the OP say "socialized medicine". The OP said "our healthcare payment structure is totally whack." I advocated divorcing employer involvement in healthcare concerns, in whatever form that would take.
> Repeal laws and this would naturally stop happening
I agree. I think there are regulations that could be changed to immediately economically favor individuals purchasing individual insurance plans vs employer-provided insurance stuff. I'd probably be in favor of that, but would prefer single-payer. Regardless, I'm definitely against employer involvement in employee healthcare at all.
Almost all of those in that list are fear-based, and fear is a big emotion. I don't know how you get past that, but the 'freedom' factor somehow should be focused on.
Freedoms to bring up:
* The freedom to move between employers and not have to concern yourself with tying your ability to get specific health service based on an employer's ability (or whim).
* The freedom to move geographically and not be concerned that you won't be able to afford access to health services. My own health insurance has a decidedly different monthly premium based on county, and I'd be saving probably $150/month if I lived 3 miles to the south.
* The freedom to start your own business (purportedly the backbone of 'US conservative thinking') without worrying about crippling debts.
Right now, instead of an elected/representative Congress controlling what services/procedures/medicines you have access to, you have a for-profit private company, with no recourse to change their leadership or focus via election/recall. "Vote with your feet" is basically impossible in this system.
"Insurance" is an odd product in this space too, at least for basic health care. Insurance is typically something we might get to reduce our exposure to risk for activities we engage in which are voluntary. Choose to buy a car? Get some insurance to help cover replacement costs, or incidental costs to others you may harm. Buying a house? Or renting? Get insurance to help cover replacement costs of things. You can choose to not buy a car, or a house. No one chooses to be born.
Untie anything related to medical care from employment. By what measure is tying someone's ability to access healthcare to the beneficence of their employer remotely morally good? Someone has no employment (through whatever or no fault) and we decide that they are somehow fundamentally unworthy (or perhaps just 'less worthy'?) of access to health services?
What never seems to get talked about after "your taxes will go up!!!" is "other things you pay for will go down!". Employer paying $1000/month for your health insurance policy? That expense will go away, and they'll either pay you more with that money or pay more in taxes.