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> Ants use the rate at which they meet and smell other ants, or the chemicals deposited by other ants, to decide what to do next. A neuron uses the rate at which it is stimulated by other neurons to decide whether to fire. In both cases, memory arises from changes in how ants or neurons connect and stimulate each other.

Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with emergent large-scale behavior. Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons. Interesting to think of an ant colony as the sum of oscillations of signals.

> Every morning, the shape of the colony’s foraging area changes, like an amoeba that expands and contracts.

Sounds like an emergent macroscopic "heartbeat" of the colony.

> In an older, larger colony, each ant has more ants to meet than in a younger, smaller one, and the outcome is a more stable dynamic.

It makes sense that small perturbations would temporarily morph the heartbeat, but would probably snap back into the default oscillation pretty quickly. It would be interesting to see if a small colony is equally resilient to small perturbations as a large colony is to large perturbations, keeping some adjusted ratio of the perturbationSize/colonySize constant.

> individual ants live at most a year.

This comes as a surprise to me.




> Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with emergent large-scale behavior. Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons. Interesting to think of an ant colony as the sum of oscillations of signals.

Indeed. I've long thought that an ant colony should be seen as a single individual, rather than a group. One part which can procreate, like the reproductive system. Another which can fight off invaders, like white blood cells, or perhaps muscles. The anthill, in turn, is like a body; constructed by the cells and neurons, and protecting the system as a whole.


The emergent layers are organelles -> cell -> tissue -> organ -> organ system -> organism -> organization.

Consciousness is an emergent phenomenon and a collection of consciousness is the noosphere. Even though each of your organs make their own decisions and contribute individually to your "consciousness", you still consider the entire thing your "self". Your decisions are made based on analyzing multiple conflicting distributed signals given off by your organs.

Organizations are no different, assuming identity, autonomy, and motivation.


I was going to say you can also look at a country like this, with roads as veins, military as white blood cells, scientists/universities for brains, etc.

But my theory falls apart with the reproduction system. We don't really reproduce other 'countries'. While with ant colonies, a single entity produces all the "cells", and also all the "embryos" to start their own ant colonies.

In that sense an ant colony uses asexual reproduction if looked at as a whole.

Thanks for the new insights! :)


> But my theory falls apart with the reproduction system. We don't really reproduce other 'countries'.

Sure we do. The UK has a whole lot of offspring, for instance.


Offspring, perhaps. But kidnapping is not reproduction.


I'd say it's reproduction, it's just not voluntary reproduction. Every time a culture invades another, you can think of it as creating a new culture that has the "genes" of the previous two. Examples include the influence of the moors on Spain, the changes to the English language due to the Norman conquest, and the modern unique Afrikaner culture of South Africa.


I'd say it is a mix.

Partly reproduction, partly conquering. As usual the place is not empty.


Xenomorphs (or less exotically, parasitic wasps) reproduce just fine in that style.


Countries die and are reborn as new countries. The USA is a child of England.

Countries definitely do reproduce, usually on a longer cycle than that of the humans that make them up.


In some ways that's what collonialism is. It doesn't happen as much these days but if/when we start colonizing other planets, that would be a form of countries (or unions) reproducing.


> It doesn't happen as much these days

Oh, we still lay the eggs of new countries in the corpses of ones we kill.


Search 'Wikipedia US Involvement in Regime Change' for more details.


I'm not sure about ants, but with bees the males generally come from other colonies. A princess mating with males from the same colony may cause problems in the offspring.


This point is made in the book "The Soul of the White Ant" by Eugène Marais, and is perhaps the primary thesis of the book.

It is a fascinating book, and I can recommend reading it, though having been published in 1925, it is possible some of the information is out-of-date.

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-White-Ant-Complete-Unabridged/dp...

"White Ant" actually refers to termites, though the same principles apply. The book was originally published in Afrikaans. According to Wikipedia:

> [The book] was plagiarised by Nobel laureate Maurice Maeterlinck, who published La Vie des Termites (translated into English as The Life of Termites or The Life of White Ants), an entomological book,[3] in what has been called "a classic example of academic plagiarism" by University of London's professor of biology, David Bignell.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eug%C3%A8ne_Marais#Theft_of_hi...

Following reference [4] led to this page which I unfortunately don't have the time to read in its entirety right now, but from a skim seems to have some interesting further information on termites:

https://web.archive.org/web/20070915005006/http://www.biolog...


The hardcover version is only 814.57$


My goodness, would you look at that! Luckily the paperback is only 1% the price, so solid deal there!

I thought it's a data entry error, but no, it looks like that's the legitimate price range for the NEW hardcovers (the actual listed ones are even more!):

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0007JVUSK/ref=dp_ol...

It's either a ripoff, or some sort of collector's edition original versions. Though if it were the latter, I'd have expected it to be advertised as such.


They’re priced by different algorithms that “outbid” each other.


Do they start them at $1'000 and let them bid down from there?


This isn't exactly related, but it's one of my favorite blog posts.

http://www.michaeleisen.org/blog/?p=358


One of the algorithms could be capped at $1000 for their inventory.


I've long thought that an ant colony should be seen as a single individual, rather than a group.

The great E.O. Wilson has had similar ruminations: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/books/review/Jones-t.html


I recall termite colonies also have interesting an interesting behaviour that resembles an analogue for an organ that other animals are acquainted with: lungs.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2015/09/how-termites-...


An interesting religious motif example would be something akin to the body of Christ. We're all members of a larger function or culture.


Ants in one colony are 75% genetically identical.

I think this is the main argument for looking at a colony as a distributed individual organism.


>Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with emergent large-scale behavior. Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons.

The same can be said of human organizations, too. Organizations have distinct behaviors ("company culture" comes to mind) which can be totally out of the control of individuals, if the org is big/complex enough.

God I love ants so much. Such a philosophically interesting creature.


>Main takeaway, very interesting analogy. Ant colonies are great examples of complex systems with emergent large-scale behavior. Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons. Interesting to think of an ant colony as the sum of oscillations of signals.

Or perhaps like a Fourier decomposition of a complex waveform. Whereby each ant essentially becomes a constituent "wave" in a complex signal.


That's my intuition for the brain, as well. Something to do with composition and relative independence, from which arise incredible complexity, "multi-dimensional" processing — it's a big, big graph.

You might have to consider several such "waves" in ant colonies — maybe one electrically defined for a certain type of information; another chemically defined for another domain; etc.



Immensely interesting food for thought. Thanks!


Even more surprising for me is that the queen can live 30+ years.


to my surprise i still watch this youtube channel after seeing a video by accident

https://www.youtube.com/user/AntsCanada


I wish I could watch this in my sleep.


I can't believe how popular that channel is. 3.2 million subscribers...for ant videos!


I got over his way of story telling eventually. ;-)

But yes, he does great work...


Yeah, me too. I followed him for almost a year but in the end I felt like he tried to make video too frequently and the information concentration is too low.


RIP Fire Nation.


She's giving Elizabeth a run for her money


Is it very different from a large scale construction project?

The group knows how to build the structure even if no one individual can explain every detail.

And to an observer they'd see humans arrive each morning, spread out to accomplish tasks and then return to their cars.


In large scale human projects someone, or at least a small group of leaders, will know almost every detail and delegate. Ant colonies have no clear leadership, just a pheromone voting and decision system.


My last job was probably more ant colony like than most. We had jobs, someone quoted them, someone measured them, someone put them in the schedule, several of us did the jobs, the finished jobs were delivered and installed. All without anyone really delegating. We just followed the schedule and the paperwork. Even the boss didn't always know the details of the schedule or what we did. It all flowed pretty smoothly most of the time. We all just kind of knew what to do. It kind of broke down a bit when things went wrong though, it was was hard to figure out sometimes where and when problems happened, and in that case someone usually made an authoritative decision, but it wasn't that often.


That works from what I've observed at my company for jobs on a timetable < 6 months, or a shutdown/repair industrial type job.

Once you start getting into 5 phase, 2.5 year long projects it helps having a dedicated PM overseeing every detail and coordinating between the engineer/owners/superintendents.

Heaven forbid you get into a government contract where now you have 10x the paperwork/submittals and RFI's compared to a private job, which it really does help to have one person pretty much memorize the spec book and know where to find everything when needed.


This reminded me of a theory I've been developing, I don't know if others have had it or have it, however an emergent behaviour that I've had some inklings may be true for humans relating to how old the parents are when having children. If having children at an older age (whether older age of male, female, or both) it could mean that resources and society are more stable - and perhaps another factor that there's more time to spend with, raise the children - giving them more guidance and having more nuanced knowledge to pass down, and so evolution may have selected for successful births at an older age toward creating children with different characteristics, behaviour, abilities.


I don't have a source, but I recall seeing a pop-sci news story claiming that men who have children at an older age have sons with higher than average life expectancy. IIRC they controlled for lifespan of the father, but I don't remember any word about controlling for fertility/sperm-count of the father in later years.


I would think having kids younger, as long as the parents are not resource constrained - stable financially - would be more advantageous.

The parents would be around and healthy to help their kids emotionally and/or financially through their young adult years and the kids would be less likely to have to take care of their parents while trying to get their own life off the ground.


I think many worker ants live two years or more, a queen can live 15-30 years, depending on species and luck.

The difference in the contact between ants and between neurons is that it's not the same ants that contact each other.

A larger pool of workers also means the colony is less likely to suffer catastrophic setbacks. For example when they send a good portion of the pool to a promising food source and then those get washed away, fall prey or whatever.


We don't really know how old workers get. 1-3 years is the estimate for red wood ants. For Pharaoh Ant workers it's 70 days.


>Indeed the same could be said about networks of neurons.

The idea of memory as persistent echoes of neuron firings in spacing & intensity is fascinating.


> This comes as a surprise to me.

Were you expecting them to live longer or shorter? (I would likely have guessed six months.)




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