Anecdote - one of my friends (who is a good, but not mindblowing developer) is drawing a 180k$ in San Fransisco for (essentially) maintaining a CRUD insurance app in Rails. He is being wooed by a social gaming (yeah I know!) company who is offering him 200k. So I'd think 100k would be low in San Fran. Just as a contrast, 100k is a toprange salary for a really good developer in Bangalore. By and large only managers make that kind of money hereabouts.
My friend says that he isn't able to get people to join his present company even at those rates and the only people attending interviews are clueless Indian developers who are waiting for their Green Cards[1] but hardly know how to create a table in MySQL. The good people who do join soon leave for better companies or startups.
[1] I am Indian myself fwiw. I am not saying all Indian devs are clueless, just that those applying at my friend's company are.
$200k base salary in the Bay Area is Engineering Manager level - VP at a well-funded startup, or Sr Director at a larger company. Not sure what your friend is doing.
$75-$100k represents 0-5 year engineer in the vast majority of cases. Most mid-career folks earn between $130-$160k.
n.b. There are definitely exceptions. Difficult and specific hires will generally command market rate + 50%.
Anyone got any thoughts on how to convert these figures to an equivalent for London in the UK?
It'd be great to compare for those of us based in the UK.
Incidentally I also noticed a comment here that mentioned that everyone is hiring, presumably in the Valley, and suggested you brush up your resume and go to networking events and look for a better offer. If you do decide to dust off your resume then you may be interested in my new startup http://www.mightycv.com/. You can sign up for the beta with this code: 22MARCH2011. It's a resume builder aimed at developers/hackers and integrates with HN, StackOverflow and Github. It imports from LinkedIn too. Here's my MightyCV by way of an example: http://robeastham.mightycv.com .
"$200k base salary in the Bay Area is Engineering Manager level - VP at a well-funded startup, or Sr Director at a larger company. Not sure what your friend is doing."
First I think it is 180k gross salary, not really "base". Second, as I said, all I know is that he is working on some kind of CRUD Rails Insurance App that makes its company millions of dollars. He is just a competent Rails dev. No genius of any kind or any extraordinary skills like, say Linus Torvalds. Maybe he is being paid a premium because he is the only capable dev in the company. Maybe he just got lucky. He has a dozen years or so of experience. I really don't know any details hence the "anecdote" prefix.
If it helps, I knew middle managers at Intuit were drawing well above 200k US$ at nowhere near "Senior Director" level. My immediate boss in India was drawing around that much. And his boss about 300k. Another "dotted line"/ matrix org( heh!) immediate superior was getting >250k as well. This guy was a "Chief Architect" and not manager at all. (well in Intuit all these positions are very political and not really about tech at all, still) And he had a 3-4 layers above him before he reached the boardroom players at Intuit. I don't consider GlassDoor to be authoritative but here is a report for a position (plain jane "architect") that would be one level below my "Chief Architect" boss.
Seems to bear out my thesis that these kind of salaries aren't all that rare. To repeat, I am not saying GlassDoor estimates are accurate, just that in this case, it bears out my personal experience.
Another anecdote: My title at Intuit (India) had an additional (and empty) "Senior Program Manager" tacked onto "Architect" and I was getting > 100k in India. (In Intuit, when I was there, Indian salaries were roughly half US salaries for the same position.) They still find it very hard to hire senior technical people. Go figure.
My personal hypothesis on such things is that salaries follow perceived (vs actual) value add. I had nothing to do at Intuit except attend endless meetings about meetings and write the occasional email. I quit in 6 months.(It helped that I really didn't need the money and I could make an equivalent amount but actually working for it (which I am doing now touch wood)). My former division at Intuit has delivered nothing (except PowerPoint) in the last couple of years but everyone who is still there keeps drawing their salaries. Some even got raises.
So, yes. Intuit is a cash flush/high paying company, but I still wouldn't really blink at someone getting 200 k in San Fransisco, without being anything like a VP, but hey I don't live there. What do I know? I am glad to concede to people "on the ground".
PS : I also have friends, who are really good developers working on very cutting edge projects in Google (Mountain View) who don't make anything near 250 k. They are very fulfilled by their work and don't seem to care. So it seems to be all over the place. But there certainly are very normal devs getting >200k in SV. (and of course many more at WallStreet companies but that is probably a separate discussion).
180k package makes a lot more sense. 140k base + 20% bonus target + 10k stock is what a lot of senior developers make.
In my experience "chief architects" do tend to get paid a lot, regardless of direct reports.
By the way - this discussion is very confusing since most people in this thread are talking about base salary, yet you seem to consistently talk about entire package.
as a contrast, 100k is a toprange salary for a really good developer in Bangalore.
Isn't USD100k a ridiculously large salary in Bangalore for any job that has 'Developer' in the title. I'm actually completely blown that a person at a software company in Bangalore could be making that much.
No it is not ridiculously large. It is large, hence the word "top range". There are people making that kind of money but yeah some of them don't have "developer" in their titles and are probably called "Architects"[0] or similar[1]. We are talking of really good people who, for whatever reason (often family etc) do not want to work in the USA etc.
Salaries in Bangalore are heavily dependent on "years of experience". The way the HR folks calculate expected salary is something like 2-2.5 lakhs Indian rupees(about 4-5k US $ depending on the exchange rate) * number of years of experience. So with about 12 years of experience[1] you should be getting about 48-60k$ if you are still coding and are at least somewhat good at your job. This is the average* though and falls precipitously as you move towards the bodyshopping end of the bell curve. (You can still make this kind of money as a manager though, even at the most cheapskate bodyshopper)
The really good folks get better salaries than that. The interesting thing about Bangalore is that the range of salaries is wide. You have barely literate "coding bodies" (who the "outsourcers" encounter) drawing puny salaries and also very senior devs who can pick and choose where and what they work on and get close to US salaries(and often have spent a few years in the USA before heading home for good).
So yes 100k is high but not ridiculously so, (If by "ridiculous" you mean someone getting such a salary is some kind of absolute rarity, and an object of wonder when spotted). Otoh I've never heard of any kind of dev/tech person getting say 200k $ or more, though I know people in the US who do. (they are pretty rare too)
"I'm actually completely blown that a person at a software company in Bangalore could be making that much."
You really should talk to some senior devs in Google's (say) Bangalore office ;-). Twenty years from when outsourcing took off,things have changed, even in Bangalore although that change is still unevenly distributed. Not every dev in India is grubbing for the crumbs from the outsourcer's table any more.
That said, this is just my viewpoint based on what I see. Consume with appropriate dosages of salt. Even better talk to some world class Indian devs who chose to stay on in or come back to India and find out for yourself.
[0] Of course some "architects" are just people who got old and never got promoted, just is in the USA.
[1] Title Inflation is a real problem due to differing social expectations etc which is a subject that would take pages to explain.
[2]there is heavy pressure to move into management (see [1]) and it is only the really committed devs who stay coding for 10 years +. Which makes their supply all that much rarer for when you really need them.
Interesting. I have been living in Chennai for some time and had no idea salaries in Bangalore could get that high for people choosing to stay on development and not move into management. So I guess what you're saying is since it's a less popular career track, companies that want that kind of experience pay well to get it
As a dev at msft in Hyderabad, I know that salaries around 100k (gross, not base) are quite possible for senior devs with over a decade of experience. However, we need some perspective here. There are 2.5 million people working in the IT-BPO industry in India. Of those a mere 100k work in product companies (domestic or MNC captives). My rough estimate is that about 1-2k of this 100k are developers making 100k USD. Outside of product companies (2.5 million - 100k), in the IT service companies, about one in every 300-400 guys makes $100k - and that guy is almost always a senior management guy.
Also, while a few make $100k, $50k is common for people with over a decade of good experience - but do remember that there are relatively very few folks (<5-10% of the industry) in India with over a decade of experience.
"companies that want that kind of experience pay well to get it" is a very concise way to put it. Yes that was exactly what I was trying to say. I guess I am also saying that if you are really good (which is rare by definition) you'll find (these days) that there are more companies (than there used to be) who are looking.
My friend says that he isn't able to get people to join his present company even at those rates and the only people attending interviews are clueless Indian developers who are waiting for their Green Cards[1] but hardly know how to create a table in MySQL. The good people who do join soon leave for better companies or startups.
[1] I am Indian myself fwiw. I am not saying all Indian devs are clueless, just that those applying at my friend's company are.