>Apply the dichotomy of control and the four virtues to everything you do and, as Epictetus promises, you will never be unhappy. You will be free, and you will live a life truly worth living. We all fall short of this ideal, of course. Yet trying to live up to it really works.
That "really works" part is why approximately 80% of western therapists practice CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) which was pioneered by Albert Ellis and his team after inspiration from capital S Stoicism. Not psychoanalysis or any of the other popular 20th century approaches to the mental health of modern man, but a derivative of Stoicism that has proved very powerful.
As someone who has been reading Stoic works for 5+ years and for the last two years practicing my own derivation on a daily basis, a part of me agrees that the conflating of the modern adjective stoic and the philosophy and approach of Stoicism is indeed unfortunate. However, I do not believe that this is the primary barrier to entry, but rather the fact that practicing the philosophy is hard, slow work. Just as effective CBT asks a lot of the patient, Stoicism is not a quick fix. In some ways I see the misnomer as a tiny hurdle to entry that weeds out those only interested in dialectic rather than the hard work of changing and crafting one's character.
I would be dishonest if I didn't also point out that Ancient Stoicism has some fundamental problems that are also likely a barrier to the thoughtful. One of its founding pillars is a teleological universe which, thanks to advances in science, we now know to be false. Further, Stoicism glosses over aspects of human behavior (such as addiction and trauma) and is outdated in its approach to inter-community relations, approaching social contracts in the context of small, warlike city states (and later in the context of an authoritarian, imperialistic empire).
A modern, widely adoptable descendant of Ancient Stoicism would be quite different and most certainly wouldn't be called Stoicism. In the end, I don't believe the layperson's misunderstanding of Stoicism needs to be fixed. Truth needs no defense - the predictive and eudaimonic power of Stoicism is there for anyone to pluck if they have the impulse to reach for it and the courage to do the hard work of applying and reforming the self, along with the philosophy.
That said, it's awesome, you all should check it out.
I love stoicism. I see the correlation to CBT, i.e. being in control of one's self rather than trying to control a world which is best to accept as it is. However CBT from my perspective is a very high level way of 'managing' emotions, a band aid fix if you will. You notice negative thought patterns and try to quash them. Personally I'm a greater fan of AEDP which is a lower level approach of 'accepting' core emotions to resolve traumas and begin to unpack unhelpful thought patterns. 'It's not always depression' by Hillary Jacobs Hendel was my entry point to AEDP.
> However, I do not believe that this is the primary barrier to entry, but rather the fact that practicing the philosophy is hard, slow work. Just as effective CBT asks a lot of the patient, Stoicism is not a quick fix.
For me the primary barrier is that I don't see how they actually apply to me. Their explanations start from places that I don't recognize, let alone know how to reach. As far as I can tell, they simply don't talk about the sorts of experiences that I regularly struggle with (basically a bunch of stuff that sort of looks like a cross between a neurodevelopmental condition and a depressive disorder, but without any specific diagnosis or treatment really sticking).
Have you ever run into a problem with some software and gone to its tech support site, only to find that the knowledge base is just a bunch of descriptions of how the software is supposed to work, written for people who are using the software wrong? Click the X button, it says, and then when Y happens you can do Z. But you went looking for support because the X button was disabled, so you couldn't really click it in the first place. To me, CBT and Stoic explanations of the human experience hit a lot like that.
I agree. I’m not sure if this is nonsense. I just find it has been the case in my experience: The menu items are very slow to be enabled and it seems to require very hands on, personal experience, and analyzing those experiences with the appropriate philosophical lens(es) either in the moment or soon after.
It’s like I need to go through a process with the right philosophical “attitude” in order to distill the most useful understanding of the philosophy. Reflection helps but it’s far too nebulous for me to leverage it for real, meaningful personal gains. It’s just a facet of the bigger picture.
> outdated in its approach to inter-community relations, approaching social contracts in the context of small, warlike city states (and later in the context of an authoritarian, imperialistic empire).
Is that actually outdated? There are fewer "entire community mobilized against existential threat" type wars these days, but there seems to be a constant brew of conflict world wide (proxy wars, drone strikes, etc). Frankly, I find Stoicism one of the best ways to cope with the two quotes I keep hearing in my mind: "high school never ends" and "war never changes".
Finally - We're just on the very tip of the cusp of the effects of climate change. Entire regions supported by subsistence farming for millennia will within a lifetime become a literal hell. As we go from a world of seemingly endless abundance to constrained resources (arable land, potable water, etc.) I think "war like city states" more closely represents our future than anyone really wants to accept.
Valid, interesting points. Personally, I find it very difficult in this connected world to know where my community begins and ends anymore (and thus how to manage the various social contracts I undertake).
Is my community my favorite subreddit, or my physical neighbors who are actively voting my rights away? Should I support my country of birth and residence in a trade war that damages my partner's family and her country of birth? We have a duty to protect the best parts of our communities - does that mean I should or shouldn't accept that job to work on nuclear weapons? At what point is it just to emigrate to NZ rather than stay and try to work toward solutions? My family is literally divided on this point, with several members now enjoying a covid-free existence on the south island.
These questions didn't really exist 2500 years ago. The boundaries of human communities were clearer, in my view, mostly because there were hard barriers to emigration and global communication. But to your point, that doesn't mean the fundamental principles have changed, and maybe things aren't all that different after all! We just have to be comfortable with asking and answering our own questions and applying principles to our modern times.
why not the city and state you live in? The questions did exist 2500 years ago; When someone decided to leave their 'home' country, they stopped caring about the things they could not longer control. They focused on the community where they lived. Sounds A.) Stoic, and B.) common sense. Why did your partner move here if not in search of a better life? If you don't think you'll have a better life here than elsewhere than the answer to your question is you should move to NZ.
>One of its founding pillars is a teleological universe which, thanks to advances in science, we now know to be false.
No, we don't. We know that if a teleological universe is true that it is a lot more complex than previously thought, e.g. that evolution would have to be a part of it. That isn't a disproof of a teleological universe though.
I don't think that Stoic physics can really serve as a fundamental problem for adopting Stoic ethics to daily life. Case in point - the Neostoicism movement of the 16th century combining Stoic ethics with Christian theology. I think the main kernel of what's attractive in Stoicism is quite easily compatible with different theologies (or none).
Sure, some core axioms traditionally did follow from their physics, but I've found that it's reasonably easy to build a different foundation for those axioms.
Any recommended reading in those 5+ years? I consider myself naturally affine to the ideology and just read Irvine's book on the topic ("A Guide to the Good Life"). Any other recommendations?
I'd be happy to suggest what I've found useful! However, the philosophy is expansive and old, so there are too many possible recommendations - it depends on what you're trying to accomplish. A broad survey of its principles? A straight-forward introduction? Modern attempts at reform?
May I ask for the straightforward introduction recommendations in place of GP? I found your comment very interesting -- my understanding of either is still very rough, but as I was reading through Feeling Good[1], I had the feeling that on a practical level, both were attempts at finding out "how to take it as it comes" (excuse the hasty reduction). I did not know of the direct link between them, thanks for that bit of knowledge.
I liked “A guide to the good life” by William Irving, which covers the history, techniques, and advice from the big names of Stoicism.
I wouldn’t call myself a Stoic, but I have a lot of anxiety from my job and life and found this book helpful in changing the way I think and feel about situations in life.
That "really works" part is why approximately 80% of western therapists practice CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) which was pioneered by Albert Ellis and his team after inspiration from capital S Stoicism. Not psychoanalysis or any of the other popular 20th century approaches to the mental health of modern man, but a derivative of Stoicism that has proved very powerful.
As someone who has been reading Stoic works for 5+ years and for the last two years practicing my own derivation on a daily basis, a part of me agrees that the conflating of the modern adjective stoic and the philosophy and approach of Stoicism is indeed unfortunate. However, I do not believe that this is the primary barrier to entry, but rather the fact that practicing the philosophy is hard, slow work. Just as effective CBT asks a lot of the patient, Stoicism is not a quick fix. In some ways I see the misnomer as a tiny hurdle to entry that weeds out those only interested in dialectic rather than the hard work of changing and crafting one's character.
I would be dishonest if I didn't also point out that Ancient Stoicism has some fundamental problems that are also likely a barrier to the thoughtful. One of its founding pillars is a teleological universe which, thanks to advances in science, we now know to be false. Further, Stoicism glosses over aspects of human behavior (such as addiction and trauma) and is outdated in its approach to inter-community relations, approaching social contracts in the context of small, warlike city states (and later in the context of an authoritarian, imperialistic empire).
A modern, widely adoptable descendant of Ancient Stoicism would be quite different and most certainly wouldn't be called Stoicism. In the end, I don't believe the layperson's misunderstanding of Stoicism needs to be fixed. Truth needs no defense - the predictive and eudaimonic power of Stoicism is there for anyone to pluck if they have the impulse to reach for it and the courage to do the hard work of applying and reforming the self, along with the philosophy.
That said, it's awesome, you all should check it out.