I agree. Personally, I'm more sick of the culture of bargaining and haggling over increasingly small, pedestrian items that has gained a lot of fashion in the recession, even among people for whom it is not a financial imperative. It was a movement with a lot of momentum even before the recession, though, so there must be some other more enduring dynamics at play, too, not just cyclical stuff.
There's a social cost to making an ass of yourself arguing +/- $0.30 on a loaf of bread, so I don't do it. And--I jest not--I get chided by "frugal" people for not spending a half hour going through my pile of 50+ coupon clippings in front of the register in the express lane, ten people waiting in line behind me be damned.
Nobody in the startup scene here likes a customer that rides them about price no matter the discount, and appears to be fixated solely on price and not on value. Nobody likes the message that sends about the customer's priorities, their character, or the value they attach to the product or service. There is a moral and a psychological valence to the whole thing. It's off-putting, because it says that you don't realise that sometimes there is more to life than cold, rational economic calculus. So why do it to others?
Negotiating big-ticket items like salaries, houses and cars has always been okay in this culture, and there are considerable practical reasons to do it; thousands of dollars are on the line, and the people on the other end of the table have a pricing structure and a sales methodology designed specifically to maximise gains on people reluctant or unable to negotiate. Obviously, I'm not saying you should allow yourself to be screwed for the sake of eschewing confrontation.
However, at the risk of sounding culturally chauvinist, as a Soviet immigrant, one of the things I have always liked about the US and for which I have taken pride in my adopted homeland is the fact that we're above petty bazaar culture here--haggling for the sake of haggling, or being obscenely preoccupied with price. Let's not lose that. Those of us from other cultures that have fewer compunctions about wheel-dealing in petty crap know where that leads, and it's a really detestable trait when not mandated by the necessities of poverty.
There's so much I find wrong here I don't know where to begin. I'm not the type to line-by-line somebodies post, but I'm tempted here.
Remember what Einstein called "The most powerful force in the universe" -- compound interest.
Small savings, done consistently, can grow into fortunes. Haggling; Couponing; Finding the best cash-back credit offers (and changing regularly to the currently-best credit card), the best APYs, the best coupon codes for websites;
Three general things I listed. In my own personal experience, you can very easily save $1000 a year from each of those 3, so in total, $3000 a year. (In fact, we save that from couponing alone.)
At a fair, 5% APY, when I retire in 40 years, that has grown to nearly $400,000. And if you can approach a historically-avergae 8%... wow: That's now $840,000.
There's no "social cost" to that. There's certainly pressure to conform: Pay the asking price, don't waste the time using coupons to full-effectiveness which often requires doing more than one transaction when you checkout, don't have the audacity to use the best deals possible from every bank you can find. But "cost"? No. There's no cost. Having strangers like you upset at us doesn't cost me a thing.
I've noticed that others with your POV dismiss the potential, they think they have it figured out. That coupons waste hours to save pennies and even then only on things you may not want or need anyway. That there's no way to "win" when you game the banking systems rewards. That haggling just doesn't work unless you're buying a car or a house.
But an additional $840k at retirement should illustrate to anybody that discounts the potential that they're just wrong on this one.
I think you've severely hyperbolised my comment. I didn't say you shouldn't be smart with your money, most especially when the cost of doing so in resources or obnoxiousness is small. I didn't say you should always pay sticker price, and never seek a good deal.
I merely encourage judiciousness about the wisdom and worth-it-ness of bargain-hunting in a given situation, and the recognition that doing it in every situation is not necessarily the best thing ipso facto.
Also, left unsaid is that I am coming from the perspective of someone who started a business from cash, with nothing, in a high-cost area. Having had to tenaciously brute force my way through every step of of the process without the benefit of 5% APY offers or anything of the sort has taught me important lessons in when it's worth it to pursue a discount.
To be fair, the example you used was haggling over a loaf of bread.
You thought I was kidding? I wish I were. I ran into a woman the day before yesterday who was at Publix (www.publix.com) here in Atlanta, asserting that the identical multigrain rye was 30c cheaper at Kroger down the street and she was taking her business elsewhere.
She didn't exactly look indigent, either; I'd take pity upon someone who managed to panhandle $2 but not $2.30. She was in a smart business suit.
It's not the first, second or third time I've seen something this ridiculous lately. I can only conclude it's a trend.
It's not Publix's policy to price-match across the board but often will. They'll also accept competitors coupons. They also accept B1G1 Manufacturer coupons when they themselves are running a B1G1 free sale, getting you both items free.
Joke all you want, she's the smart one here. You crowing about her here has no "social cost." And you say that your POV comes from running a business. So does mine. In my case, I contract myself out. I've grown into a very high hourly rate. I have an assistant to help with things so I can add more billable hours.
But what I've learned from running a business is to guard every damn cent that goes out the door. Not spending dollars to save dimes, but spending one dime to save 2.
Dude, 30 cents is a huge, HUGE deal. Dealbreaker even. And you don't have to be indigent to realize that. On wall street, IBs routinely send out managers who make seven figures to the exchanges to negotiate a 0.0001$ per share instead of 0.0002$. Entire trading platforms are swapped because some bean counter in the settlements desk thinks you can squeeze an extra penny out of the other platform. When your trading volume averages 100m$ per DAY, these point one-thousandth of a cent add up very quickly.
But your time has a cost. How much time do you spend cutting coupons, seeking discounts, finding, and then pursuing rebates, cash back offers, etc? Could you spend it doing something else? Would that time expenditure make more money than $3k/yr? The last calculations I saw, you were almost always better off picking up a part-time job or a hobby that makes stuff you can sell.
Not nearly as much time as you think. And $3000 is the low-end that I used to make a point.
In truth, last year, using those things I mentioned, I received slightly over $25,000 in extra perks and bonuses. That's not an exaggeration. The bulk of that is 2 free first class tickets to Europe. After that, about $3k in coupon savings, and $2k in cashback on my credit card, and a few hundred dollars in the "open this checking account and get a $100 bonus" type of rewards.
This is in addition to 50-60 hour weeks billing hourly and working from my home office.
Next year I probably won't be able to repeat that: it looks like I'll only be scoring _one_ free first class ticket to CDG. Even still, that's an estimated $16k this year
There's a social cost to making an ass of yourself arguing +/- $0.30 on a loaf of bread, so I don't do it. And--I jest not--I get chided by "frugal" people for not spending a half hour going through my pile of 50+ coupon clippings in front of the register in the express lane, ten people waiting in line behind me be damned.
Nobody in the startup scene here likes a customer that rides them about price no matter the discount, and appears to be fixated solely on price and not on value. Nobody likes the message that sends about the customer's priorities, their character, or the value they attach to the product or service. There is a moral and a psychological valence to the whole thing. It's off-putting, because it says that you don't realise that sometimes there is more to life than cold, rational economic calculus. So why do it to others?
Negotiating big-ticket items like salaries, houses and cars has always been okay in this culture, and there are considerable practical reasons to do it; thousands of dollars are on the line, and the people on the other end of the table have a pricing structure and a sales methodology designed specifically to maximise gains on people reluctant or unable to negotiate. Obviously, I'm not saying you should allow yourself to be screwed for the sake of eschewing confrontation.
However, at the risk of sounding culturally chauvinist, as a Soviet immigrant, one of the things I have always liked about the US and for which I have taken pride in my adopted homeland is the fact that we're above petty bazaar culture here--haggling for the sake of haggling, or being obscenely preoccupied with price. Let's not lose that. Those of us from other cultures that have fewer compunctions about wheel-dealing in petty crap know where that leads, and it's a really detestable trait when not mandated by the necessities of poverty.