> ... of even just your mouse cursor reacting instantly to your movements.
But you probably haven't, except in, well, games?
> 60hz is far from smooth, and that number is a leftover from days past, not what is actually optimal or good.
Well it would already be wonderful if we actually had 60 Hz in modern application / devices, including 16 ms response time. I fired up an old game the other day on my arcade cab (CRT screen), some shoot'em up game, and it was silky smooth. I'm pretty sure it was "only" 60 Hz but it was constantly 60 Hz: any input with the joystick or buttons had results the very next frame.
This felt so much smoother than any of the army of modern devices I'm using on a daily basis: even if they can animate stuff at high refresh rate, the latency before the animation starts is what makes using them painful.
Refresh rate is a thing but so is the latency between when your input and when, visually, it produces a result.
I've seen people working on ports from old arcade game where they'd record using high-speed cameras LEDs physically hooked to the joysticks/buttons to make sure that "input at frame x means response at frame x + 1". Short of that your app very probably is not responding in 16 ms or less, unless you really know what you're doing.
There was this famous rant by John Carmack where he lamented that on PCs it was faster to do a transatlantic ping than to push one pixel to the screen: I don't know how far we've gone, but when I compared modern devices to my old arcade cab and it's measly 60 Hz (but 16 ms latency), I'm still not impressed.
A 120 Hz or 144 Hz or 240 Hz is no good if it takes 35 ms between when you move the mouse and when you see the results on screen: that's not "120 Hz" but 30 Hz. And 30 Hz feels laggier than an 35 years old arcade cab: it is that shameful. 35 years and still feeling more responsive than any productivity app.
I remember a recent tool posted here (I think for OS X: maybe an editor) here by someone who was fed up with this extreme "input lag" and was guaranteeing his program would be answering in less than 16ms (maybe was it 24ms, don't remember exactly). But that is an exception.
I think you're highly underestimating how smooth 60 Hz already is when there's no input lag. Now, of course, I'm taking 120 Hz or more any day over 60 Hz but we should very badly focus on input lag too.
And, sadly, we live in a world where I'd scientifically guesstimate that 99.99% of the programmers are totally unable, due to limitations of their tools (do they have high speed cameras and can they prove how fast things are pushed to the screen?) / knowledge (I'm not John Carmack and modern software stacks sure seems complicated) / languages (let's not start a flame war) / mindset (never optimize anything / 100 MB JavaScript downloads are fine, etc.), to push anything to the screen in 8ms or 4ms.
Except for top-notch game programmers working on AAA titles.
So 240 Hz monitors, sure: bring them up. But bring me too the programmers and tools needed so that in 4 ms I'll see the result of my inputs.
>I remember a recent tool posted here (I think for OS X: maybe an editor) here by someone who was fed up with this extreme "input lag" and was guaranteeing his program would be answering in less than 16ms (maybe was it 24ms, don't remember exactly). But that is an exception.
Mac OS 9 Lives praise Mac OS 9 against OSX because of that.
But you probably haven't, except in, well, games?
> 60hz is far from smooth, and that number is a leftover from days past, not what is actually optimal or good.
Well it would already be wonderful if we actually had 60 Hz in modern application / devices, including 16 ms response time. I fired up an old game the other day on my arcade cab (CRT screen), some shoot'em up game, and it was silky smooth. I'm pretty sure it was "only" 60 Hz but it was constantly 60 Hz: any input with the joystick or buttons had results the very next frame.
This felt so much smoother than any of the army of modern devices I'm using on a daily basis: even if they can animate stuff at high refresh rate, the latency before the animation starts is what makes using them painful.
Refresh rate is a thing but so is the latency between when your input and when, visually, it produces a result.
I've seen people working on ports from old arcade game where they'd record using high-speed cameras LEDs physically hooked to the joysticks/buttons to make sure that "input at frame x means response at frame x + 1". Short of that your app very probably is not responding in 16 ms or less, unless you really know what you're doing.
There was this famous rant by John Carmack where he lamented that on PCs it was faster to do a transatlantic ping than to push one pixel to the screen: I don't know how far we've gone, but when I compared modern devices to my old arcade cab and it's measly 60 Hz (but 16 ms latency), I'm still not impressed.
A 120 Hz or 144 Hz or 240 Hz is no good if it takes 35 ms between when you move the mouse and when you see the results on screen: that's not "120 Hz" but 30 Hz. And 30 Hz feels laggier than an 35 years old arcade cab: it is that shameful. 35 years and still feeling more responsive than any productivity app.
I remember a recent tool posted here (I think for OS X: maybe an editor) here by someone who was fed up with this extreme "input lag" and was guaranteeing his program would be answering in less than 16ms (maybe was it 24ms, don't remember exactly). But that is an exception.
I think you're highly underestimating how smooth 60 Hz already is when there's no input lag. Now, of course, I'm taking 120 Hz or more any day over 60 Hz but we should very badly focus on input lag too.
And, sadly, we live in a world where I'd scientifically guesstimate that 99.99% of the programmers are totally unable, due to limitations of their tools (do they have high speed cameras and can they prove how fast things are pushed to the screen?) / knowledge (I'm not John Carmack and modern software stacks sure seems complicated) / languages (let's not start a flame war) / mindset (never optimize anything / 100 MB JavaScript downloads are fine, etc.), to push anything to the screen in 8ms or 4ms.
Except for top-notch game programmers working on AAA titles.
So 240 Hz monitors, sure: bring them up. But bring me too the programmers and tools needed so that in 4 ms I'll see the result of my inputs.