Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Popular Harmful Movements That Are Based on Complete Lies (theapeiron.co.uk)
12 points by bankofsouls on June 7, 2021 | hide | past | favorite | 18 comments



The oil companies knew about climate change in 1989. They used this information to distort the science, seed doubt and lobby politicians.

"Marty Hoffert was a scientist working at Exxon Mobil Corporation in 1989, the first researchers to build a computer model looking at the effects of man-made carbon emissions on the climate.

His results were startling. Man-made carbon dioxide was killing the very planet.

The first action was to set up the purposely misnamed Global Climate Coalition. An organization funded by oil companies around the world to aggressively lobby politicians and media.

An organization that was in essence, pro-climate change.

Next came another ironically named organization called the Information Council on the Environment. This beauty of a non-profit had the stated goal to “reposition global warming as theory (not fact).”

They targeted “older, lesser educated males from larger households who are not typically information seekers” as well as “younger, low-income women.”

Does that group sound familiar? It’s the modern GOP’s most fervent supporters.... "

Good article !


I willing to give the benefit of the doubt on some of this, but PETA is a horrible organization of horrible people. As much as I love animals, PETA is not their friend.


Outside of the claims in this article, why is PETA horrible?



"Black Lives Matter" is another popular movement based on complete lies (the "systemic racism" conspiracy theory)


Could you explain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining without systemic racism?


And we will hear only crickets on this one...


Can you elaborate on the aspects of "systemic racism" that lead you to classify it as a conspiracy theory? Whom are the conspirators and what are their claims?


the theory that police kill black people because of their skin color is completely bonkers.

If you check any publicly available crime stats all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers or other people, like in recent case of Winston Smith in Minneapolis who shot at officers before being killed, or Jacob Blake who reached for a knife to attack a cop, or Ma’Khia Bryant who was about to attack another girl with a knife, or Rayshard Brooks who attacked a cop with a taser, etc, etc.

Few of these cases were tragic accidents like in case of George Floyd whose sick heart just couldn't handle him vigorously resisting arrest (while pumped with lethal dose of fentanyl), or Breyonna Taylor who was standing in a dark hallway besides her boyfriend while he was shooting at officers.

The list of BLM "martyrs" is long but none of those cases had anything to do with racism.


> all police shootings were in cases of violent criminals attacking officers

I have seen at least three video's where the victim was shot without provoking police. I understand your angle but think you should re-consider "All" as that is certainly not true. Examples are good but the data are there to make a statistical argument.

> anything to do with racism.

Interesting. Would you take it further and say the history of racism (and slavery, etc) in America has no effect on today's black person in the US? Just trying to understand where the common ground may be.


All cases I've seen were justified self-defense by cops or cases were police were protecting civilians/bystanders from the armed criminal, or cases where exact cause of death is hard to determine because of multitude of complicating factors like drug overdose and poor health in Floyd case (as per his coroner report).

I don't know what is gained by resurrecting the ghosts of racism after decades of civil rights progress, to me it seems like an obvious political fabrication which profile is raised before the elections and soon forgotten.

I've heard BLM leaders complain that their cause has been cynically exploited for political gain. Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used to target e.g. poverty, drug addiction or prevalent black-on-black violence but instead turned against police who protect these poor communities from themselves.

The last thing they need is reinforcing victim mentality, which BLM movement actively promotes.


>All cases I've seen were justified self-defense

Again, you're making subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying. You can make the argument that a given incident was justified or not, but it doesn't follow that desire for change is founded on lies. There is a gigantic wealth of input on this topic, and individual videos of police violence, even if you somehow think every single instance is justified, is still only one part of the picture, first-hand experience and data analysis being just two major examples of other input. I'm not saying this other input proves anything - just, again, that it is unreasonable to assert that the entirety, or even the majority, of the desire for change is based on lies.


>subjective determinations based on a small input and declaring that anybody with another opinion is lying

this is the primary tactic of BLM movement, proclaim a few martyrs for the cause and generalize it to "systemic" phenomenon (and call anyone who disagrees, or brings up facts a "racist"), just like a proper conspiracy theory.

The theory could have a seed of legibility if at least these few martyrs so loudly protested for were actually killed because of their race and not because of obvious bad choices they made, like shooting at cops. But that's not the case, if you dig just a bit deeper beyond biased news and manipulated videos omitting context and engineered for outrage. These are fake martyrs and systemically fake movement.

If you think there is systemic racism in the US, where is the systemic evidence.


> All cases I've seen were justified

I have also seen many videos that were, as you put it, engineered for outrage. However, I think any claim that "all" were justified is demonstrably untrue, and there are plenty of videos where unarmed or unprovoked shootings occurred (ex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRMYVFmEmx8).

> ... and poor health in Floyd case

I enocurage you to watch the entire video if you have not. Keeping your knee on someone's neck long after they have lost conciousness will always present a health risk. Can you explain the scenario where you would maintain a choke hold after a person has lost consciousness and not expect harm to the individual?

> Some of them are sincere and i feel bad that such powerful movement was not used

The movement is in its youth and finding its legs, after a likely unexpected swell of support (financial and otherwise). Time will tell if it has a lasting impact that many hope, but I beleive it is too early to predict what its outcome will be either way.

Ultimately I fail to see the conspiracy claim. "The election was a fraud" is a conspiracy claim, because it asserts a small group of actors manipulated the outcome of the election (i.e. that they conspired) in a specific way. "Racism persists in a systemic way" in America is more general claim made by a wide variety of individuals and there's no singlular claim as far as I can tell?


what does that youtube video have to do "systemic racism"? it seems like a tense situation with someone seems to be holding a gun-like object, the camera shows one angle , you have no idea how this scene looks like to the cop, it's not his body camera, you don't know if he can hear or understand warnings that this person is autistic. And even if he can it doesn't take away that from cop perspective that person is holding a deadly weapon with another person lying down possibly under deadly threat.

Are you the judge and jury? have you seen all the evidence? have you been in that cops shoes in life & death situation with adrenaline pumping? that's exactly how this engineered narrative spreads, by showing you one piece of the story, one angle of a camera, and aiming for blind outrage and viral distribution.

this (hispanic) cop is doing his job trying to resolve the situation which from his side seems like someone brandishing a gun and not responding to officers orders, possibly mentally disturbed individual, seating besides another person lying down with hands in the air, the cop is potentially saving that (black) person life.

Where is "racism" exactly? how does this unique and complex case generalizes to "systemic racism" accusation of the entire police force risking their lives out there to protect people like you, black, white or brown?


1. I think you missed who got shot ;).

2. This video (and many like it) are to refute YOUR claim that ALL shootings of blacks by police are provoked. But perhaps a better angle would be videos of blacks being stopped for no reason and harassed? there are many of those.

3. Why did you avoid addressing the floyd comment or the FBI claims which seem to more directly lead our conversation?

I agree that people don’t give cops in stressful situations the benefit of the doubt nearly enough. I also don’t believe that most cops are bad or racist. But i do believe systemic racism (historic and current) exists amd explains a variety of phenomena better than competing theories (which are?).


How can a subjective observation of the behavior of a system with the scale and number of inputs of a modern society with hundred of millions of citizens be a lie or a fact? Only a minority of the details can be reasonably considered definitely false or true, and there are of course many, many details.


The U.S. A United States Department of Justice investigation found the 'hands up' claim was inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence, and the witness testimony surrounding the Brown shooting




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: