Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

As others pointed out, it's not all or nothing. The specific example he was using was that you have that p = 0.7 game and you invest 80% of your wealth on each round.

I think it would be intuitive for anyone that you could lose the first few rounds despite there being very favourable probabilities. If you really do go all-in, you could lose it all on the first round. But he's using an example of going "just" 80% in.

I think the part that's unintuitive for many people is that the probability of going bust increases the more rounds you play. Most people (myself included, perhaps) would naively expect that a favourable game would always have positive return as the number of plays increases. That's a mental failure to account for the fact that the game ends if we lose everything.

The counterintuitive result is because if you put 80% in each time, you could lose 99.97% after 5-straight losses or 99.99999% after 10-straight losses. The more you play, the more likely you are to eventually hit N consecutive losses and, therefore, go bust.

I have to concede that I don't know who would start from a place where they think betting 80% of the farm on each play is a sane strategy. Then again, we've all heard of founders who re-mortgage the house to fund their startup so...




I'm not sure I really agree with the entire concept of "going bust" in these terms. To nit pick, you don't go bust if you lose 99.97% of your money. The real point is from whereever you start 5 losees will take away 99.97% of your money and it's asymmetrical- after those 5 losses you don't need 5 wins to make back your original sum of money because now your wealth is much smaller so you need far more consecutive wins to regain your wealth. It's counter intuitive because most people don't really think about the implications that you're betting a fraction of your wealth and your wealth at each timestep is a compounded function of the previous timesteps. They think of wealth as a constant where it's not.


You’re totally right and my rationale was mistaken.

My two examples were based on the idea that there’s some limit on how we can divide the original bet. For example, if a person starts with $10 and loses 99.97%, they have nothing left because rounding. Likewise for losing 99.999% of $1000.

In hindsight, though, the risk of consecutive losses wasn’t the point of the math. As you point out, the asymmetry is the problem. Loss occurs over time even with intermittent losses.

Here’s an example of how to half $100 in capital, despite a 70% win rate.

   $100.00
   $ 20.00 (L)
   $ 36.00 (W)
   $ 64.80 (W)
   $ 12.96 (L)
   $ 23.33 (W)
   $ 41.99 (W)
   $ 75.58 (W)
   $ 15.12 (L)
   $ 27.22 (W)
   $ 49.00 (W)
   . . .
The impact of the asymmetry seems obvious in hindsight. I might have to agree with the original post that it’s a bit counterintuitive.


This is the best summary of this problem I’ve read here. Thanks!




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: