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The government isn't compelling me to get vaccinated, either.


Yes they are, all sorts of "freedoms" hinge on it now.


I can't work in certain jobs without a security clearance.

The government is not forcing me to get a security clearance.


I’m pro vaccine, but requiring I take a test or prove my trustworthiness strike me as fundamentally different than requiring I inject something in my body.


They can't legally force you, so they're using other means to exert as much pressure as possible. Doesn't feel any better to a lot of people to know they weren't technically forced.


In this scenario, you're seeking a job for which a clearance is a prerequisite.

In this world, people with jobs are being fired for not getting vaccinated. It's not a small cohort either; it's the government and giant corporate entities.

There are a few notable exceptions, though, of employers that are not mandating vaccination. Pfizer, for one. The White House, for another. When the pharma that makes the thing, and the POTUS, who is making vaccination priority #1, don't require it, that is some laughably awful PR.


Pfizer is mandating it. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/04/vaccine-mandate-pfizer-will-...

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2021... says the White House has as well.

> The White House didn’t even establish a vaccine mandate for its own staffers until last month, despite the shot being available to them early in the year.


The headline even says "or undergo weekly testing"


If the government said that unvaccinated individuals were not allowed to purchase food, would you consider that OK, because they're not forcing you to stop eating?


Vanishingly small percentages of jobs require security clearance.


Vanishingly small percentages of freedoms require vaccination.


For me to agree with "vanishingly small", I should rarely encounter a vaccination requirement in my day to day life. The wishlist for places and activities that will require verification is so large I will be encountering them multiple times a day, for the rest of my life.


Yes, and that's perfectly fine because 1. you've been accepting that for other vaccines already and 2. there is no cost or significant risk to you from getting vaccinated, mostly just massive benefits. It's a win-win situation. Society is asking you to take 1 hour of your time to save your own life.

The fact that some people don't recognize that gift as what it is because they've been misinformed is irrelevant because, well, whatever they believe is simply not true.


No, not really. I've lived in states where vaccines were required to enter grade school, but there were religious and conscience exemptions. And flu shots are often required in health care. That status quo was far less invasive than what is being proposed here. I have never had to prove vaccination status to just do ordinary things in my life before.


You can’t drive a car without a license for the same reason: unlicensed drivers kill people at higher rates. Just like unvaccinated people kill others at higher rates.


>Just like unvaccinated people kill others at higher rates.

Source? Are you saying unvaccinated people are out there murdering others? Do people no longer have functional immune systems?


Sure, so long as you don't need groceries in a major city.


They also compel you to do things such as wear clothes and shoes in order to get service.

If you want to take part in exchange, you must do it in terms acceptable to both parties. You are not entitled to take from society on whatever terms you dictate on your own.


I live in a major city and I have never even heard of requiring vaccinations to buy groceries. Is this a thing that exists somewhere? I would love to read more on this.


I'm not aware of anywhere in the US requiring it for groceries.

NYC is notable for requiring it for indoor dining, gyms, and a few others. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-mand...


I've gone to a variety of stores in a major city, and never been asked for my vaccination status.


Which major City are you referring to that demands vaccination for grocery shopping?


how does the government response to you not being vaccinated interfere with you getting groceries?


Grocery curbside pickup and delivery are readily available in my non-major city.


That's great if you've got a vehicle and/or can pay the extra cost for delivery. The urban groups statistically most likely to be unvaccinated (blacks and hispanics) are also those statistically least likely to have a vehicle or be able to pay for delivery.


This discussion would only be relevant if there was any downside or personal cost to the obvious solution, which is to just get the damn vaccine.

Apart from facing one's cognitive dissonance, fears and ignorance, there is none. Just overwhelming benefits. It's perfectly okay for society to require it.


You don't need a vehicle for curbside pickup.

Make "vroom vroom" noises while you wait, if it makes you feel better.




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