In 2019, Frances Hui, a student at Emerson College in Boston, wrote an opinion piece for the student newspaper titled "I am from Hong Kong, not China” (1) and she was subjected to doxxing and death threats:
The most jarring comment came from a Chinese student at Emerson, who made Hui’s personal Facebook posts public. In one post, he wrote a comment that translates to: “Whomever opposes my greatest China, no matter how far they are, must be executed.”(2)
The student should have been expelled and Emerson should have an unequivocal statement condemning this sort of harassment over any topic.
The Chinese government has seeped its way into nearly every facet of American life. This is most visible in Disney movies (see: the Mulan and Lion King remakes) but it is happening to many companies and universities where they use our own greed against us. I hope America will wake up and realize we have fighting a hidden war, but we are so divided I doubt we'll notice until we've lost, if we notice at all.
It's terrible but, it's brilliant too. Like, I don't like it but it's also amazing. It makes a confounding effect on how I should feel about these things.
It's like, don't hate the player, hate the game? I do hate the game tho.
Well, the old saying was that the communists would hang the capitalists with rope sold by the latter to the former. It seems like the capitalists always seem to keep ahead of the communists though.
You mean you want US to be even more jingoistic? It won't be an easy task for sure as I'm reading propaganda pieces almost every day for a last few years in a places that earlier were almost politics free (ars technica, hn...) - regular new sites not to mention.
If it requires fighting a war that has been "hidden" it's pretty jingoistic. Especially given the hand-waving everyone does here to call China a despotic autocratic regime despite the US having more prisoners overall and per-capita, and let's not even begin to compare foreign policies. Which country has overthrown more democratically elected governments? I've lived in several impacted by the US.
>China a despotic autocratic regime despite the US having more prisoners overall and per-capita
You A) don't know that, because stats coming out of China aren't to be trusted and executions and disappearances are common B) are conveniently ignoring the well documented reeducation/concentration camps where the only crime is being a Muslim minority.
China is modern day Nazi Germany, they're not even really communist, they have government controlled corporations and operate in a capitalist system. In many ways they're fascist and even revere Hitler in their school teachings. Taiwan at least has socialized healthcare, in China you have to pay for it. If they are "communist" they're doing a shit job of it.
On the surface, this seems like FUD or at least exaggerated. Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile. China does have a lot of corporate influence at the upper levels and corporations do pull many of the levers of government here, but on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic. Although this topic has been sensationalized a lot, personally I don't think China is as successful as they sometimes seem.
I feel compelled to clarify this: Hong Kong is part of China, and has been since 1997. Saying that Hong Kong is not part of China is like saying that Texas is not part of the United States because at one point they seceded. These days, Texas has no more right to secede from the US than Hong Kong from China, even if there are people in both territories who would prefer full independence. Consequently, to a Chinese person, hearing "I'm from Hong Kong, not China" would be like hearing "I'm from Texas, not the United States" as an American.
Granted, someone saying the latter should never be met with death threats, just like the former!
Note that the sovereignty of Hong Kong is not as clear cut, because history.
Hong Kong was given to the Britain by three treaties in the 19th century (1842 Treaty of Nanking, 1860 Convention of Peking, 1898 The Second Convention of Peking), and the true copies of all treaties are in the hand of Taiwan, which were brought to Taiwan by the KMT government during its retreat to Taiwan before 1950.
If the declaration behind Hong Kong’s 1997 handover to China (the Sino–British Joint Declaration of 1984) is revoked, arguably it could be contested if Hong Kong should belong to the holder of the bearer shares of the three treaties, Taiwan. (See previous discussion [1]).
And in the most recent six-monthly report on Hong Kong published on 14 December 2021 [2], the UK government stated that China is not complying with the Sino-British Joint Declaration:
With China now in a state of ongoing non-compliance with its international obligations under the UN-registered Sino-British Joint Declaration, the UK will continue to work with international partners to hold China to its legally binding obligations on Hong Kong. Upholding the promises it entered into freely is in the best interests of Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity.
China is not-complying the declaration behind Hong Kong’s 1997 handover to China.
The way Texans talk of being independent is actually kind of endearing I think. I think being offended or threatened by such talk would require an incredible feeling of insecurity.
If you're intending to imply that the British didn't need to hand over Hong Kong because China changed rulers, I'm afraid that's not really how the law works. And, in any case, the negotiation of 1984 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-British_Joint_Declaration) between Britain and the PRC set up Hong Kong to become a PRC territory in 1997.
That's not quite the equivalence. This is more like you having a piece of paper from the old owner of a property showing that you're entitled to passage and showing it to the new owner.
The point is that no matter how many laws get passed, you could very easily see yourself as from Hong Kong, not China, and you shouldn't get death threats for saying as such.
This is totally separate from the point you were making. You can say you're from Hong Kong, but it's part of China. That you shouldn't get death threats should go without saying.
Texas does not have a special one country, two systems status and Hong Kong does until 2047. The fact that the communist party completely ignores this fact does not make it go away. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems
Yes, thanks for the clarification. I was trying to make my comment specifically about secession - debunking the notion that Hong Kong is not part of China. The HK Basic Law, the same document that guarantees the "One country, two systems" approach, starts with the sentence "The Hong Kong Special Administrative Region is an inalienable part of the People's Republic of China."
I agree that the mainland government acted rashly. The forced implementation of the national security law definitely violates the spirit, if not the law here, and understandably a lot of people were alienated by this move. That said, the Basic Law does provide a provision for the implementation of such a law (Article 23), and there's ample wiggle room for the governments involved to argue that they haven't yet demolished the "one country, two systems" approach as yet.
While those in Hong Kong still enjoy more freedoms then China mainland... locking people up for only holding up signs and chanting (not excusing those who were violent)... has scared off Taiwan. No one wants to vote for the "Patriots" and now those in HK live their lives to try not to go to jail.
Nations are made by wars, not "Basic Laws". Read the history. Whether HK is a nation or not depends on how strong their people's will is to not be Chinese and to go to war for it - "Would rather be annihilated than being Chinese." Apparently they don't have it, but the jury of History might still be out.
I don't know why people single out China for this when the US has invaded, couped, bombed, and otherwise helped install right-wing military juntas globally. Where was self-determination for Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos?
China's priority is national security, and given the track record of western liberal democracies it is not unreasonable. As I recall we had a civil war the last time states tried seceding.
I’m not American, I don’t agree with the Vietnam war and I think the civil war was an ethical difficult decision. That was 150 years ago so not really sure why it is relevant.
Ha, I mean, that's not weird at all. Texans say that all the time.
Six flags theme parks are quite literally named after the six different flags that have flown over Texas as a nod to it being an independent entity regardless of which larger nation currently lays claim to it.
While I more or less agree with you, I think in this particular case using Hong Kong instead of China MIGHT have some validity due to the entirely different system a person grew up in.
Saying you are from Hong Kong gives you a ton of information that would be lost versus China
> Anecdotally, Americans across the spectrum are at least weary of China if not openly hostile.
I don't think so. Just look at what Americans buy. Money talks. Lip service doesn't count.
>on an individual level, I don't think it's that's dramatic.
the frog just doesn't notice the boiling. For example how discussing Chinese origin of covid got branded as racist in the public mentality - i think that branding is a great PR success pulled by China which as a result turned public attention away from and severely eroded public support for covid origin investigation especially in the earlier days of pandemic when evidence/witnesses may have still been available.
Discussing the Chinese origin of COVID got branded because racists were using it as an excuse to attack Asians in America, including those who weren't of Chinese descent or whose families had immigrated many decades ago.
Yes, if you accuse the waitress at a Chinese restaurant of being responsible for COVID, you are racist.
911 also was used as pretext to attack Muslims/MidEasterners in America, yet discussing Afghanistan/Saudi/Al-Qaeda/Islamic extremism origins of the attack didn't get branded as racist.
The firm association in the public mind between the attacks and origins, as your comment for example demonstrates, is the part of that great PR success by China.
Your memory of 2001-2007 or so is very different from mine. I recall the term "raghead", attacks, and the lovely picture of fully armed men in body armor "protesting" a mosque in Dallas. And yes, that was racist.
It is worse than that. We are in a pandemic that has already caused millions of deaths, billions of hours of manpower spent, trillions of dollars wasted and an immeasureable amount of mental anguish. It's negative effects can be said to be worse than many a war by any significant measure you can find.
Yet even just bringing up the leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid and its transmission to humans is all but taboo in "educated" circles. Same goes for discussing the role the WHO played and all evidence we have as to why it played that role. Any discussion of why this pandemic happened and that the nation where it originated has blocked all independent investigation to investigate this; bringing it up is not done.
The "leading consensus in science as to the origins of Covid" is that it was a natural zoonosis. There's very little support for the lab leak conspiracy theory in the scientific community.
Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press, contrary to what you're saying.
The reason why this theory has become so popular in the US is that it distracts from the disastrous response to the pandemic in the US.
China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since. Yet nearly two years later, the US is still struggling. As it says in Matthew, "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
>Yet this conspiracy theory is discussed ad nauseam in the American press
Please point to any major media discussing the Wuhan coronavirus GoF research involving human subjects (the EcoAliance's approved by NIH grant application is pretty clear about it).
> China essentially beat the virus by April 2020, and has had almost no cases or deaths since.
China has paid a huge economic cost for its zero COVID policy, not many other countries could or would afford such a solution. They aren’t the envy of the world (let alone America) in this regard.
The Chinese economy did well because of the zero-CoVID policy. The policy allowed China to reopen businesses in March-April 2020, and to avoid widespread lockdowns since.
> The Chinese economy did well because of the zero-CoVID policy. The policy allowed China to reopen businesses in March-April 2020, and to avoid widespread lockdowns since
Much of that GDP growth was still tearing down and building apartment blocks. It isn't real. Again, they are completely closed up now. They are "locked down" even if they aren't stuck in their houses anymore. I wouldn't want to be living in Beijing right now (where I was from 2007-2016), it isn't a very fun life these days.
This is just another variation of the old argument that China's growth is fake.
> They are "locked down" even if they aren't stuck in their houses anymore.
Beijing is not under lockdown. Pretty much everything is open, and has been for more than a year. There are testing requirements to enter Beijing (which is something that's particular to Beijing), but that's it.
> This is just another variation of the old argument that China's growth is fake.
China admits that a large part of their GDP is building and tearing things down. There is no "fakeness" about it, it just is what it is.
> Beijing is not under lockdown. Pretty much everything is open, and has been for more than a year. There are testing requirements to enter Beijing (which is something that's particular to Beijing), but that's it.
Beijing is not under lockdown, it just isn't an open city right now.
Given the latter half, I think that's *wary (cautious) rather than 'weary' (fatigued, fed up)?
I'm not American, but something I've noticed on YouTube is that 'import' is a euphemism for 'Chinese crap' - probably more prevalent because there's more of a US manufacturing base to begin with, but the funny thing is when it's imported from somewhere else that's respected it's a German tool, or Japanese for example, but 'import' seems to mean 'imported from China', heh.
(I'm not claiming I'm above it nor offended by it, just caught my attention because 'import' isn't an adjective to me and the usage amused me. It wouldn't really catch on in the UK I don't think, because so much is 'import' to begin with, whether Chinese or not.)
Watch back to the future. Doc brown from the 50s "no wonder it broke it's all from Japan". Marty from 85 says "what do you mean all the best stuff comes from Japan".
I remember when Vizio made garbage tvs. This is more of a delayed and earned reputation thing. Also product market fit.
As an anecdote in the 90s and 00s "import" cars usually meant Japanese cars, especially ones not available on the US market. This wasn't really a negative connotation, and there was a whole scene for high performance "import tuners". Just interesting to your point that in context "import" implies a specific country.
In years past, Japanese import was considered synonymous with cheap crap. That reputation changed over time, eventually becoming associated with high quality. Chinese imports now having that reputation doesn't really have much to do with how Americans feel about the Chinese government.
This has been the policy of the USA for decades (e.g. pentagon script approval, military subsidies for professional sports (in exchange for an antitrust exemption) etc. Is this really any different?
This comment is not intended to praise or support the CCP, but just to provide some context. I think the US government should be staying out of content as well.
You're right, from the point of view of Americans it is OK to influence every aspect of life in other countries, but if the reverse occurs it is the end of the world. Given that China is quickly becoming the richest country of the world, it is just normal they will have more and more influence in American society, just looking from the economic point of view. Consider for example how Japan started having a cultural influence around the world in the 80s. The same will happen with China.
I look at the underlying data. The news is full of excitable suggestion because that gets attention.
China's managed to lift a huge number of people out of poverty and deserves credit for that. They did it at a terrific cost in human life and rights and they deserve opprobrium for that, in particular for the continued and now increasing level. We have plenty of examples from history that such an approach is not sustainable.
Regardless, if you look at the numbers the odds of significant further growth are dubious. China remains quite poor on per capita GDP, even on a PPP basis it is in the lower half of countries. It has an enormous unemployment problem, and a huge demographic overhang. Corruption, false statistics, and cronyism remain dominant in the economy and government, more reminiscent of a small state than a massive one, and all of which make it very difficult to manage large shocks.
I'm not saying the PRC is some benign kumbaya entity. But they have deep structural weaknesses that are not discussed much because it's more useful to various people to point elsewhere.
> China remains quite poor on per capita GDP, even on a PPP basis it is in the lower half of countries.
This is exactly why China has such a huge growth ahead. Just to get to the level of countries like Australia this will make their economy several times the size of US.
By the way, US fertility rate is 1.63, far lower than the replacement rate of 2. This means that the US is also under a generational population decline.
China’s official fertility rate is 1.7, but there is evidence they’re (of course) lying about the data and it’s closer to 1.3 [1]. The US can support a lower total fertility rate with immigration and its existing wealth and dollar reserve status. China cannot.
Yeah it doesn't help there's like a 1:3 female to male ratio, even if they wanted to meet replacement rate, thanks to one child policy incentivizing parents get abortions or committing infanticide until they had a son, they don't have enough wombs to go around. A lot of angry desperate young males though, which is causing different societal problems, kidnappings of females from other countries, etc.
This cuts both ways. The problem is that the US is already developed and the lower fertility rate will only keep up what they have. China has a lot of people who are, in this generation, coming out of poverty, and this will continue for decades, until the possible downsides of fertility show up.
Moreover, the US is changing its immigration policies exactly at the moment they need it most, which seems to be another tragic mistake.
“Whomever opposes my greatest China, no matter how far they are, must be executed.”
originated from East Han (BC 35). It has been popularized by recent patriot movies.
The most jarring comment came from a Chinese student at Emerson, who made Hui’s personal Facebook posts public. In one post, he wrote a comment that translates to: “Whomever opposes my greatest China, no matter how far they are, must be executed.”(2)
The student should have been expelled and Emerson should have an unequivocal statement condemning this sort of harassment over any topic.
Emerson did nothing.
1) https://berkeleybeacon.com/person-of-color-column-i-am-from-...
2) https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2019/05/28/frances-hu...