this is exactly the white savior crap that much of the world hates from the US. the sheer arrogance to think that even a significant fraction of Taiwanese would be interested in moving to America, let alone the entire populace.
And then the gall to suggest _Ohio, the Mojave, and Alaska_. Bit on the nose, don't you think?
I don't understand how you think this rhetoric helps anyone. I guess it lets Americans puff out their chest?
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. Doing that is worse than the original offense, because if people didn't fan flames, the original provocation would simply fizzle, as it deserved. Instead, you amplified it, as well as egregiously breaking HN's rules with your own comment.
No, no, this is about exactly right. When the CCP comes for Taiwan, the exodus will be on a scale unseen in our generation.
It seems your family history has been blessed to not know this sort of existential crisis. For generations now, The US of America is, actually and literally, viewed as the land of salvation and opportunity for millions of people around the world. Do not pretend that it is not.
Of those, the US is the most frequent top preferred destination, at 21% or 158 million.
Gallup also publishes a Potential Net Migration Index for each country, which finds that net 17% of Taiwan would like to leave, including 25% of the youth. This data is from 2015-2017.
Times have changed. I've lived through that era where much of my childhood years were living under the impending threat of a takeover but over the years, I've come to realize that the path laid by the late Lee Teng-hui had been a noble and justified one. If it weren't for him and history, I would have continued to believe in the KMT (I no longer do).
your appeal to emotion rings hollow. Did I deny that? My family viewed the US as such in the past. No longer, I can assure you. It is precisely because we have experienced life in the US and Asia that I feel that I can actually comment on this topic.
If you seriously think millions of Taiwanese think this of America I would love to see your reaction when you travel there. Ohio, the Mojave, Alaska. Insulting on a whole new level, really.
> If you seriously think millions of Taiwanese think this of America I would love to see your reaction when you travel there.
Whether intentionally or not, I think you are misreading the parent comment.
They never claimed that this is how the Taiwanese population views the US now. They are claiming that this is how they are very likely to start viewing the US when/if CCP starts marching towards Taiwan. Those two statements are very different.
Thanks. That's a more reasonable statement but I still stand by my main points that 1. a much, much larger contingent would stay than Americans seem to think, 2. the US is far less desirable a location now than ever, and 3. those that do come to the US will not be going to our backwaters, hell the standard of life in Taipei is arguably higher than in top American cities.
I also think violent takeover is a remote hypothetical but that's another discussion.
Absolutely. Those points you are making [regarding why you don't believe that Taiwanese people will have a heavy majority that is for escaping to the US], they are valid, regardless of whether I agree with them or not. And I don't necessarily have a strong reasoning for disagreeing with them, hence why I am perfectly ok with agreeing to disagree on those. Especially since I agree with you in premise, I just disagree on the magnitude.
I fully agree with the violent takeover being a remote hypothetical though.
Surely you understand that your preferences are not widely shared - that's probably part of why you like living there in the first place, no?
If you wanted to persuade a group of people to immigrate to the US, you'd mention Ohio and the Mojave desert first? Those are not "premier" locations regardless of how you or I feel about them personally.
> Surely you understand that your preferences are not widely shared
"Not a widely shared preference" and "insult" are two different things, entirely.
"Anchorage has the most ethnically diverse schools in the United States, including the three most diverse high schools, the three most diverse middle schools, and the 19 most diverse elementary schools. Even the least diverse schools in Anchorage rank in the top 1% nationally."
As for Ohio, over 11 million people like it well enough to live there. Again, it's not an "insult" to suggest that someone else might like it. Especially if their alternative is PRC.
“[Taiwan refugees] can help [USA] rebuild the infrastructure [of] Shanghai and Guangdong in Ohio Valley, Mojave/Sonora or Alaska regions”
There is no suggestion that any Taiwanese citizens be forced to relocate, be confined to or even visit those spectacular areas of North America! Seriously comrade, me thinks you protest too much.
I'm inclined to agree. Half of the Taiwanese in the US live in California and the rest mostly in Texas/NY. They are a highly-educated, modern populace, they aren't going to go "building railroads in flyover country," let alone come here at all. There will be some sort of exodus that will likely be supported by the US gov't but I can't imagine it being anywhere nearing the millions mark.
> this is exactly the white savior crap that much of the world hates from the US
I'm the kind of person that hates this kind of crap from the US, like, interfering with foreign governments to increase their freedom is the kind of doublespeak I'm not too thrilled about.
But this does seem a bit different. Here people from Taiwan are proposed to be given an evacuation route. Nobody said anything about invading and taking the whole population by force. An alternative proposal I saw mentioned is to keep Taiwan out of China's hands which seems way more invasive (and risky, like, world war type risky) by comparison.
I do agree that the specific "dump them in one of our deserts" idea would not be what first comes to my mind, but ignoring the specifics for now, I'm not sure that this is how GP meant it. (And leaving completely in the middle whether this is feasible or a good idea for all the other reasons. I'm just commenting on the "provide option to get away" -> "don't do savior crap" part.)
this is exactly the white savior crap that much of the world hates from the US
How do you have information that he's white, or even American? I couldn't see anything like that in his profile. I read it as the voice of someone in Taiwan asking for help.
And then the gall to suggest _Ohio, the Mojave, and Alaska_. Bit on the nose, don't you think?
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Can you elaborate for the rest of us?
Most of your comment comes off as just anti-American sentiment, but zero actual information or discussion of the topic at hand.
Agreed…i didn’t see any sort of racism in the comment. I read his location choices as having more to do more with supporting a semiconductor / advanced manufacturing base - sort of an expansion of the TSMC fab being built in AZ.
Really, it's a lot worse; White savior crap usually has at least a couple levels of indirection between it and the outright ethnically-stereotyped economic exploitation of the “beneficiaries”. (To be fair, the latter does usually end up accompanying it, but usually not as an overt part of the initial sales pitch.)
And then the gall to suggest _Ohio, the Mojave, and Alaska_. Bit on the nose, don't you think?
I don't understand how you think this rhetoric helps anyone. I guess it lets Americans puff out their chest?