I recently had a conversation with an older friend who, in his teens, moved to the US from Thailand. After graduating from college, he found his passion in animations and, ultimately, led one of the animation divisions for The Simpsons by moving to S. Korea.
I was surprised to hear that he lived much of his professional life in S. Korea building out The Simpsons (decades ago) and why/how the work was outsourced there. He told me that labor and talent was abundant and affordable.
This made me think of a possible reason as to how S. Korea's entertainment industry has become successful worldwide. That is, just as outsourced manufacturing/operations helps countries build out the infrastructure and gradually transform into a country for developing quality products/services, something similar happened where the grunt work of entertainment was outsourced helping S. Korea build out the underlying infrastructure until it had enough talent and capabilities to enable a larger ownership over the product/vision and become a major player itself.
Korea's media industry benefited greatly from decades of trade protectionist policies and government subsidies. For example, movie theaters had a maximum quota of foreign movies they were allowed to show at once, meaning bigger budget and better produced foreign films wouldn't dominate the mindspace of audiences.
Simultaneously media arts schools received various benefits to produce high quality people in all areas in front of and behind the camera.
This high quality labor pool, in addition to (relatively) low labor costs meant that several countries also outsourced lots of production work to South Korea for decades in animation, documentary production, editing, etc.
These created the conditions for Korean film makers to be able to create very high quality productions and find their own voice -- rather than being a copy of nearby Japan or China or more popular American movie sensibilities. For decades Korean films were often well considered at international film festivals with noted directors like Park Chul-soo and Kim Ki-duk making artistically challenging films.
With this foundation, and a desire from the government to develop exportable media as a pillar of economic growth, it was only a matter of time before Korean writers/directors were able to produce material suitable for foreign audiences (foreign not explicitly meaning "Western"). Over time certain Korean shows and movies, particularly ones centered around historic periods with traditional themes, found ready audiences looking for high quality content that they could connect with across all Asia where shared history and cultural sensibilities still resonated.
It's really only in the last few years that Korean media has started to hit Western audiences as a major consumer pool. Some of this is a result of a massive investment by Netflix (about $500m) to produce Korean language media. This gives Netflix high quality, ready-made content, with original stories and themes that differentiate their platform from others. There's not really many other countries outside of a few Western European ones that they can turn to for this type of content.
Still, there's tons of Korean media that's produced for Korean audiences that will find it hard to resonate outside of Korea due to very culturally specific content and themes. If you want a great example, "Attack the Gas Station" is a great Korean movie that's almost indecipherable to audiences not familiar with Korean cultural topics and as a result will probably never see export.
Don't virtually every other country have domestic production quotas (I know Canada does which is why there are a ton of canadian pop stars who made it in the US) for their airwaves?
I think it's actually a very very good thing. Global monoculture enabled by the internet and financed by multinational corporations is wiping out cultural diversity.
I do not want McDonalds everywhere. McDonalds corporation of course does. Me? I like my Chicken Tikka.
I would argue that this is not really reducing global monoculture, but changing the flavor of it to include more variety from around the world. But I agree that it's a good thing, regardless.
seems like thought control to me. If I want to watch movies from other countries why shouldn't I be able to? Why does some committee get to decide what media will and won't be presented to me and let me make my own choice?
I choose not to go to McDonalds but I wouldn't dream for forcing others not to go. I choose to watch movies from lots of countries too but I wouldn't force others to do so.
It's telling that Korea supposedly took over here. Given your narrative this should have been impossible.
Think of it more like tearing down the moat that makes it impractical for these local media industries to operate. Walmart moves into a town and kills everything else not because it's just better, but because it has advantages of scale.
> "If you want a great example, "Attack the Gas Station" is a great Korean movie that's almost indecipherable to audiences not familiar with Korean cultural topics and as a result will probably never see export."
huh, i heard about that movie a couple years ago and went looking for it on the various streaming guides (reelgood.com, justwatch.com) but indeed it was nowhere to be found. i suppose there are korean video stores where it can be found, but i wonder if it would have english subtitles included?
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Cheap labor allows to build out the infrastructure and as prosperity kicks in, the standard of living increases—hence the need to transition from an outsourced partner to a larger contributing/strategic player to continue to compete.
In-between animation has been outsourced for a long time, Dr Movie (founded in 1990) in particular has long show up in anime credits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DR_Movie
The movie industry in the US was originally based around New York City. Various studios in Fort Lee, New Jersey and Kaufman Astoria studios in Queens were where a lot of motion pictures were made (some still are in Kaufman Astoria).
Intellectual property issues around patents were one of the reasons the movie business moved to LA. Edison was thought to be less able (or willing) to successfully sue non-client film companies operating in California.
Did it take over the world? I've heard of one popular movie "Parasite" and one TV show "Squid Game." I saw Parasite and didn't see Squid Game. I've lived in Paris, Berlin, New York, LA, London, and Dubai... I see US TV taking over all those places... but I've seen WAY more people watching Japanese anime shows than people watching South Korean TV. On the other hand, SK music seems more popular than their TV, but even in that sense I wouldn't say SK music is "taking over the world." (note: my gf is Korean and even she doesn't watch SK TV or movies).
I think the part about JP anime is true. Anime culture seems widespread among young people, globally. I'm certain that anyone reading this has heard of someone that watched or watches anime and then became a tourist in Japan, or outright moved to Japan. That's some pretty powerful stuff.
I think the effect is larger than just Japan, or even Korea, and more of an Asian thing.. that is where most of the population growth is happening after all.
Chinese anime is usually piss poor, but their industry has been getting massive and concerted injections of funding as of late, to the point where CN regular anime production quality exceeds JP anime movies. Crazy growth in those industries.
There's nothing inherently poor about the production/animation quality of Chinese animations (donghua). The animation/art can be just as good as most anime. In fact, a lot of high-quality animes outsource much of their production to Chinese animation studios.
The real problem with donghua (IMHO) is the stories. Ugh. Even when a donghua is about someone getting reincarnated in another world (like a Japanese isekai) it's all the same old stuff about spirits, martial arts, and cultivation (aka xianxia). So rather than answer the question, "what if?" the Chinese isekai equivalent is more like, "what if we told the same old story but changed the scenery?"
It annoys me for the same reason that certain scifi/fantasy shows/movies annoy me: They're just drama, "in space" or drama, "in the future" or drama, "in another world" with basically zero plot elements relating to the differences in technology, science, magic, etc. No one is exploring the possibilities or problems that certain differences could entail.
They're not even weird! Which is another common appealing point of anime--even when the basic plot is the same as many other shows (e.g. "the hero has a shield permanently stuck to their arm that they can't remove? haha; what‽").
As soon as I see that cultivation is a major element of the show it's akin to watching an anime and being like, "Oh a demon lord? How creative." =)
>There's nothing inherently poor about the production/animation quality of Chinese animations (donghua). The animation/art can be just as good as most anime. In fact, a lot of high-quality animes outsource much of their production to Chinese animation studios.
Oh, I see!
>"what if we told the same old story but changed the scenery?"
Why do you think Chinese audiences consume these stories so much?
>"in another world" with basically zero plot elements relating to the differences in technology, science, magic, etc. No one is exploring the possibilities or problems that certain differences could entail.
Right, like if we had futuristic tech, like future medicine for example, and disease or aging didn't exist or whatever, the way we live life wouldn't be the same as we do. Maybe schools or academies as we view them now wouldn't exist. It reminds me of this image, where people in the past were predicting future tech and just superimposed new tech on old methods https://teachingandlearninginhighered.files.wordpress.com/20...
Seems to be a common problem across cultures
>As soon as I see that cultivation is a major element of the show it's akin to watching an anime and being like, "Oh a demon lord? How creative."
The problem is the censorship. China gov is tightening the grip on censorship and it's hard to write good story now. And this is not limited to anime. For example, the movie Farewell My Concubine would not be possible due to the story about gay and Cultural Revelation.
Protagonists are usually "cultivators" (修心者 xiūxīnzhě, 修士 xiūshì, or 修仙者 xiūxiānzhě) who seek to become immortal beings called xian. Along the way, they attain eternal life, supernatural powers, and incredible levels of strength. The fictional cultivation practiced in xianxia is heavily based on the real-life meditation practice qigong.
The problem is the censorship. China gov is tightening the grip on censorship and it's hard to write good story now. And this is not limited to anime. For example, the movie Farewell My Concubine would not be possible due to the story about gay and Cultural Revelation.
If you want to follow TV- and movie trends from their leading edge, you should look what is popular in torrent and free streaming sites (subtitles, including fan subbed, are indication of international interest). Trends are visible there before Netflix and others catch up.
The surge of Korean movies and TV- started few years ago.
It may be a little of a filter bubble. When you watch a couple of Korean shows, Netflix will recommend more. My friends are also in the same bubble and we've watched a lot of these. Perhaps it is just an accidentally created subculture. Off the top of my head:
It definitely did take over some part of the world. My parents live in the Romanian country-side, they're pensioners, my dad is crazy about historical SK dramas. Until his retirement he almost didn't watch any TV at all, let alone TV dramas of any kind. Granted, that type of content is not targeted at the HN crowd, for example, or at the "artsy" Western audiences, to give another example.
The same discussion can be had about Turkish TV dramas.
I didn't doubt the claim because the girlfriend has been watching tons of Korean shows over the last year but never before. My Netflix list is full of them and I just recently got convinced myself by a trailer and will start watching soon ("The Silent Sea").
But I love OV content with subtitles, so it's easy access for me.
I guess it would be like a stranger entering a pub in a rural village, people in the pub are so surprised because they haven't seen any stranger for ages. No, it is not taking over the world, but for western journalists, they suddenly found a new country.
I track TV shows in different languages online. So I see, for example: 3 Belgian shows, 3 Danish, 1 Finnish, 11 French, 23 German, 2 Hebrew, 14 Japanese (not counting anime!), 19 Swedish, 19, Thai, 6 Turkish, 50 Chinese (also not counting anime/donghua), 61 Spanish, and 220 Korean.
How much that reflects my search terms and how much reflects Netflix development deals is unclear, but my general perception is that Korea is in a different league than most others.
All of these are lower than the thousands of US/UK shows, of course.
There was Gangnam Style a few years ago and BTS had a whole (US) nationwide McDonalds promotion based around them for the better part of a month this past year.
Haven't really watched any Korean TV series yet except of course Squid Games, but I've been hooked to their movies since I first saw My Sassy Girl ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293715/ ) nearly 2 decades ago. Having not been exposed to any Asian cinema except the typical Jackie Chan / Bruce Lee Kung Fu movies, this was quite a revelation as it really appealed to typical Indian sensibilities. Remember re-watching it with family members who were one generation older and they loved it too.
Since then I have been exposed to far more quality Asian cinema especially from Japan but haven't experienced the kind of connect one gets from a Korean film, be it a crime thriller, romance or typical drama. Not sure whether those brought up in the West have the same level of connect though.
On a further note, its great to get exposed to such variety of International entertainment via Netflix et al, who have really leveled the playing field when it comes to distribution.
IMO the reason it does well in the diaspora is that it does play to an older cultural sensibility.
- Romance is slower, often less focused on sex than say an HBO show
- Class divisions are stark, and visible much like they are in India, Thailand, Japan and other countries.
- Gendered roles are very marked and clear, with women falling into tropes that Hollywood still espouses but also attempts to disrupt (ingenue, career minded, ice queens, sassy side kick)
- Fable/Parable approaches to morality. There's often an overarching focus on 'the lesson' and usually a secondary lesson that is collectivist and family-focused in nature.
The questions I'm left with are:
- will the independent s. korean scene also get exported
- how will s. korean celebrity culture change as it interacts more with a wider audience? currently it is regularly locked down by those who hold the money in ways that make Britney Spears' unfortunate experiences look like a walk in the park
IMHO, one of the reasons Korean media internationalizes well is the relevance of its main themes.
Personal vs family vs extended family vs social responsibility. The relation between self and modern mega-corps. Alienation. Gender issues from individuals' perspectives.
These are things almost every country is grappling with.
As mentioned in the article a lot of people in the UK were introduced to a certain brand of Asian cinema via 'Tartan Asia Extreme'.
I was no different. As a student I'd venture into the tiny world cinema section of HMV and flick through the titles looking for anything that had the 'TARTAN ASIA EXTREME' branding on it.
So many fantastic movies in the collection [1]. Oldboy, Battle Royale, Dark Water, Hard Boiled, Ring, Infernal Affairs, Audition, etc.
This brought memories back for me, years ago there was a small VHS store that stocked a lot of these. Looking at there catalog is like a trip down memory lane.
List of there titles I saw many years ago. (Pretty much all great movies)
A Tale of Two Sisters
Audition
Battle Royale 1 + 2
Chaos
Dead Or Alive 1 + 2
Gozu
Happiness of the Katakuris, The
Hard Boiled
Infernal Affairs: The Trilogy
Lady Vengeance
Oldboy
R-Point
Ring Trilogy
Save the Green Planet
Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance
Tetsuo: The Iron Man
Visitor Q
Im a big fan of South Korean series and movies. One thing that always keep lingering in my back of the mind about them is: Does South Korean culture respect woman and their choices with so much open mindedness in real? Not only leading female character even the supporting female characters are shown with so much respect and shown like they have their own personal space and choices. Society accepts their choices.
Historically, women definitely were not given respect. My mother was had to fight to go to a university while taking care of all the younger siblings. She was not given any support while her brothers were given everything.
My aunt lived her entire life in servitude for her in-laws family. I remember that my grandfather got angry at her because she wanted to take THREE days off to go travel.
Stories like these aren’t uncommon for older women in Korea. This is depicted In short stories written by Han Kang where women become ‘plants’, a decor in one’s home, stripped of their personalities.
Thankfully, women’s rights have come a long way now. Most girls will be able to go to university if they want to and pursue a professional career without much judgment. That being said, Korea is still behind in many aspects of gender equality, compared to places like NZ.
It’s not all roses either. Very fast changes in society is resulting in conflicts. Gender conflict in Korea is at all times high now. To give an example, 20s men are more likely to be right wing as left wing parties in Korea usually includes women’s right activists.
I've read the story and honestly don't see why it became so famous - guess I'm not an "artsy" type. It's a story of batshit crazy people doing crazy things. You may like the story, but if your goal is to understand gender issues in Korea, you will be disappointed.
> My mother was had to fight to go to a university (...) She was not given any support while her brothers were given everything. My aunt lived her entire life in servitude for her in-laws family.
I don't have any reference point for South Korea, but i know of such stories in western Europe (like France) although it was much more common one or two generations ago. Not to say everything is so bad around here, but just don't trust State propaganda that all is good :)
> 20s men are more likely to be right wing as left wing parties in Korea usually includes women’s right activists
That's a worrying development, although the same kind of political reaction can be found in many places across history. Do you know of good english/french resources to follow Korean politics from an intersectional perspective?
> Do you know of good english/french resources to follow Korean politics from an intersectional perspective?
I don't know any atm which unfortunate because our political history is super interesting as we've gone through so much in the last 60 years. I'm sure there are some good articles around.
- Because of North Korea, most of our early political history was dominated by anti-communist ideology and strong nationalism.
- Also anti-japanese sentiment is one of the best way to gain politicial good will, so both the right wing and left wing accuse each other of being pro-japanese. There is even a dictionary that supposedly tracks of all the "pro-japanese" families/ people.
- You can see these two main sentiments in play whenever Koreans talk about Park Chung-hee, probably the most controversial dictator in Korea. He is idolised by right wingers as the person who lead the economic development; and demonised by left wingers as a ruthless dictator and as a pro-japanese.
This two themes have been the main themes of political conflict in Korea before 2000 (and they still are). But for younger generation, the main conficts now are inequality (house prices, labour rights, corruption) and gender (abysmal birthrate, marriage rate, just lots of hate in all internet forums).
My understanding —which is a little dated now, was that older gens cared about the Japan question, however most people who are in or have gone through university in the last 20 or 30 years don’t care about that question. They may carry some vestiges of it and recite some WWII atrocity, but don’t hold it against current living people.
It used to be Koreans wouldn’t date Japanese out of hate but with few exceptions not many would refuse to date someone because they are Japanese (as business people or exchange students of each other and so on)
In any case, it doesn’t make sense to be anti Japanese since they’re basically on the same team these days: democracies who aim to keep their economies vital in the face of competition as well as declining fertility rates and also who must contend with a regional hegemon.
Maybe the old shintoburi is still going strong though.
There is also regionalism in play, though it is not as strong as it used to be, especially amongst younger generations.
In particular, the southeast region (Gyungsangdo - GSD) is the core of the right-wing, and the southwest region (Jeollado - JLD) is the core of the left-wing. I really cringe at using the words "right" and "left" here because South Korean politics doesn't neatly align with what many Westerners would think of when hearing those terms. But for lack of better terminology...
In any case, the earlier presidents (or quasi-dictators) hailed from GSD and overtly favoritized their home provinces in terms of economic development, etc. while leaving JLD less developed. This has led to resentments that reflect in politics that persist to this day.
Some would argue the rivalry goes back even further. Historical texts exist that describe animosity between the GSD and JLD regions back into the Joseon dynasty. Going back even further, the GSD and JLD regions were the rival and enemy kingdoms of Shilla and Baekje respectively, the former which eventually conquered the latter.
It used to be that it was even taboo to marry across GSD-JLD lines, but again, this mainly affects the older generations. Personally - while I am Korean-American, my family comes from GSD. My wife is from JLD. My dad is on the conservative spectrum in terms of Korean politics and I was initially worried what he would think when I introduced my then-girlfriend to my parents for the first time. Thankfully it was a total nothingburger and my now-wife and my parents get along absolutely fine.
I once saw a TV clip where they challenged viewers to tell the difference between per-province election results and the response to Sejong's tax system at the beginnings of the Joseon dynasty -- they both had the same GSD/JLD split.
Unfortunately I can't find it now though; it was very insightful.
It's still common in popular media, there was a 2021 KDrama series ( Beyond Evil ) where they reveal who are all the bad guys early with one tell, they were the only ones who ate Japanese food. A 2018 series Mr Sunshine about the lead up to the Japanese occupation generated a bit of controversy because one character that adopted Japanese customs was portrayed sympathetically and they changed the story as the episodes aired to respond.
I am actually surprised there is a small (tiny?) but still surprising number of people that feel Japan is a real, direct, short-to-medium term military threat to Korea, as in the shooting war kind. This is a sentiment I see a lot in the Korea subreddit, but that might just be overly "nationalistic" "Koreaboos" - who may even be mostly Korean-Americans that have rarely set foot in Korea, or not even ethnically Korean.
The sentiment is not non-existent in Korea itself too though. In fact, in some discussions of recent military developments by the RoK (plans for a aircraft carrier, SLBMs, F-35 and/or KF-X fighters, etc.) it's often touted by these folks that they are just as meant to be pointed towards Japan as they are to North Korea or China.
> There is even a dictionary that supposedly tracks of all the "pro-japanese" families/ people.
This needs some quantification. The world chinil (친일), while literally "pro-Japanese", has a very specific meaning: it means Koreans who collaborated with the Japanese government during Japan's colonial rule over Korea.
That is, the dictionary in question doesn't enumerate those who liked Japan: it's a dictionary of Koreans who served or otherwise helped Japan's rule over Korea. Perhaps "dictionary of national traitors" would be a better translation. Also it's a civilian project and your name (or your grandparent's name) being in the dictionary won't block you from anything, including getting elected/hired in government positions. The only thing it does is to record history and remind some people of the crimes of their ancestors.
"South Korea has the highest gender wage gap among the wealthy countries. Less than one-fifth of its national lawmakers are women. Women make up only 5.2 percent of the board members of publicly listed businesses, compared with 28 percent in the United States.
"And yet, most young men in the country argue that it is men, not women, in South Korea who feel threatened and marginalized. Among South Korean men in their 20s, nearly 79 percent said they were victims of serious gender discrimination, according to a poll in May."
Most of the lawmakers and corporate board members are in their 50s and above. Most of the men who feel that their female peers have been more successful in life, on the other hand, are in their 20s as you mentioned.
Women in Korea begin dropping out of the workforce en masse in their early-to-mid 30s, when they get married and have children. That's the point where the trend flips upside down.
>"And yet, most young men in the country argue that it is men, not women, in South Korea who feel threatened and marginalized. Among South Korean men in their 20s, nearly 79 percent said they were victims of serious gender discrimination, according to a poll in May."
Not really an excuse but it's worth pointing out that South Korea has conscription which women are exempt from
As a South Korean, I'm glad that you've noticed this oddity of women depicted in South Korean media. It is indeed very controversial topic in South Korea. There are a group of people, heavily funded by government, who like to push a narative that Korea's gender equality is very low, and use it as a leverage for their political power. Such politics has affected Korean mass media a lot, and gender conflicts among South Korean men and women are the highest than ever. You can safely assume that such female characters as depiction of crooked gender-culture in South Korea.
As a simple proof, fertility rate of South Korea has dropped to 0.6. This is lower than countries in war; Korean men have to serve military for about 2 years in their 20s, and Korea is the least country pay respect to soldiers. I think may American would find astonishing how South Korean, especially female, like to make fun and deride them. During young mens serve military, female develop their own youth culture, and get used to a very twisted view on the society in terms of gender.
As a result, popular culture is largely divided in terms of the gender of the audiences. The OP's linked article mentions BTS as one of Korean pop music's success, but ironically, they are not that recognized among Koreans actually; It is a product of those media targetting female audiences.
I think this culture is not 'sustainable', if this is the right term to use. As a result of this political groups (which affects legislation) and weird, disgusting self-view and society-view of females, well, fertility rate is dropping at unprecedented rate.
> This is lower than countries in war; Korean men have to serve military for about 2 years in their 20s, and Korea is the least country pay respect to soldiers.
As a male South Korean citizen in my 40s, I always find it funny and sad that those young men, being dragged to the army for two years by the government, decide "This proves that all those feminists are up to no good! Why shouldn't the girls suffer in the army as well?"
I dunno, I agree somewhat that some of the arguments are funny but that take may be a bit too simplified and their outrage somewhat justified. My guess is that wealth inequality exacerbates it.
I find most of my Korean male friends who are now in late 20s to be very surprisingly anti-feminists. The degree seems to worsen the less well off they are and honestly and I can see why. Korea really defines what it means to be successful. For a normal non-elite guy who has had no family wealth, he would be treated the same or less than girls growing up. He would have to go through gruelling job market to get a job with shitty pay after his military service. Now that he is in late 20s, he realises that traditional success is nigh un achievable. His life has been really hard for him. He never felt girls around him were treated worse than him. They were able to study and prep for job market while he was toiling away in the army. But yet feminists are telling him that he should feel bad, and are advocating for policies that benefits girls. At that point he says, “If you want to get those benefits, you should work for it by going to the army as well.”
Don’t get me wrong, I genuinely believe that women’s right still need to improve. Whenever I suggest this, I just get brushed off that I just don’t know what it’s like as I don’t live there anymore. I just think those guys need to be heard properly, and I suspect the best way to resolve this conflict is to make Korea a better place to live for them: shorter or no army service, better culture around success and more distribution of wealth.
Maybe it’s already too late, looking at the birth rate though.
Just wanna point out that South Korea is one of the countries where people values wealth the most than other life goals, such as family life, work success, and other spiritual values. Regarding this South Korean problem as a problem of wealth inequalty is exactly how South Korean likes to think about. I think the opposite is true: rather than being wealthier, helping people noticing and fulfilling other life goals would be the right way.
That is a very good point. I guess I am a South Korean through and through :p But I think it's just really hard to have those values when you either swim or drown (or at least you feel like you will drown). What I mean by reducing wealth inequality is to have more safety nets in place and increase the value of labour compared to capital gains so that people feel like they can breathe and look at other things in life that are valuable.
As an American I think we could learn something from Germans and Koreans. Not saying that we should totally dis our soldiers, but I'd like to find a happy medium between dissing and worshiping.
I think it needs to be differentiated between households and the general atmosphere. Family-wise there isn‘t big of a difference to the US etc in terms of treatment.
As for society though, South Korea is one of the least gender equal societies amongst developed nations [1].
Korea also has one of the highest rates of voyeurism, there is teams deployed by the city to check public toilets for spy cams with infrared lights [2][3]
And then you have repeated scandals like nth room, a bizarre modern-day sex slavery operation with hundreds of thousands of customers which made the me too movement a bigger thing.
And (I can‘t say whether this is accurate though) apparently there is a growing anti-feminism sentiment like in many countries, where especially younger men label feminists as men haters, and get in turn mocked with certain hand gestures.
> Korea also has one of the highest rates of voyeurism, there is teams deployed by the city to check public toilets for spy cams with infrared lights [2][3]
This is probably not true. Korea is one of the only societies in which voyeurism is a top political issue for women. The police teams deployed to public restrooms to find hidden cameras have IIRC only found one, after searching 10s or 100s of thosands of restrooms. Their existence is not evidence for a high rate of female victimization, but rather evidence that female issues are being taken ever more seriously.
In Korean smartphones you can't turn off the camera shutter sound so that on the subway and other public transport upskirt photos can't be taken. Most voyeurim is done with smartphones.
Also quoting the wiki article:
> In June 2021, Human Rights Watch named South Korea as the number one country in the world for spy cam use
I don't get the impression that gender roles evolve the same way in that culture.
Like, representation in movies has nothing to do with gendered expectations in society. Whereas those things might be 99% related in some other cultures.
Can't comment on SK. But in the West we do the same thing. It's a good thing imo to very often represent in our fiction what changes we mostly wish for in reality.
We've made great strides in women's equality but are still far from being done with the topic.
Whether intentional or not this was a great move by Korea for soft power. Where I live people are obsessed with everything Korean; learning the language, buying the fashion and idolizing the idols.
I'm talking about CIA funds to get Italy out of the soviet area of influence (aka the Italian Economic Boom of the 50s), why would you pull the Roman Empire or the Renaissance out of your hat.
Risorgimento (movement to see Italian Peninsula as a unified political and cultural entity, a nation) started after 1815. Before that Italy didn't exist even as a clear concept.
Old cultural power of separate cities and regions included in the modern Italy is older, of course.
It does not imply that Italians feel any connection whatsoever. I am no Italian, but from what I can tell this couldn't be further from the truth.
Except France I am not sure any smaller country is so actively creating and consuming their own, kinda nationalist, media.
Edit:// the main reason I asked is because if you visit cultural places in Italy and read the plates / listen to the stories the US very often is portrait as the aggressor
Maybe something to do with every third American claiming to be "Italian" despite the last person from their family to have set foot there being born three generations before them.
With its ever-living communist sentiment it cannot be farther. Its cultural impact negates much of the american one and even influenced it back heavily. US armed forces presence has more to do with WWII, like in Germany, than the two being as close. It's an absurd statement basically.
My partner has been watching a ton of foreign dramas and romcom series the past few years. It started with Midnight Diner and Samurai Gourmet on Netflix, then to K-Dramas, and now we have a few Asian Languages streaming services.
My partner enjoys the fact that these aren't meant to appeal to everybody. They have tons of genres and settings that you can pick and choose. She also enjoys that these shows aren't designed to appeal to the general American audience and tastes and give a taste of other cultures. For example, sex is less overt due to many of these countries having decency laws. (Think Hays Code for older American movies, some things have to be implied instead of shown)
I enjoy the fact that these show get a limited run of 10 - 30 episodes. The stories are focused and have less unresolved threads in the show. Compare this to modern Doctor Who, ST: Discovery, or Lost, where you have story details that don't get resolved for seasons, if ever.
If you have Netflix and want to try some more lighter shows I can recommend: Strong Girl Bong-soon, Love O2O (series or movie), and My Holo Love.
> I enjoy the fact that these show get a limited run of 10 - 30 episodes. The stories are focused and have less unresolved threads in the show. Compare this to modern Doctor Who, ST: Discovery, or Lost, where you have story details that don't get resolved for seasons, if ever.
I agree 100% with that. That's probably one of the reason that I've been watching more Korean series lately. They seem to be very standardised to tell a complete story in exactly 16 episodes. Starting and finishing a series is a known 16 to 20 hours time commitment. In comparison, starting any new US series is a scary proposition. If it's successful, it might get 10 seasons and 2 spin-off. If it's not, it might stop abruptly at anytime with no resolution to the story.
I see a lot of similar aspects in business - why does everything have to be monopolistic? It reminds me of Facebook, why can't Facebook just be a product with a set goal and end of life cycle? Like everything has to be viewed through the lens of Facebook now, from games, to communication, all interaction is owned by Meta. Make it open-source when it's done and just let it live in peace. Even now, FB can't find employees because it's a scary proposition to work for it.
Why can't we just succeed at one thing then move to another.
> If it's successful, it might get 10 seasons and 2 spin-off. If it's not, it might stop abruptly at anytime with no resolution to the story.
This is something I really appreciated about Dark (German). They wrote the story as three seasons, it was complete for three seasons, they found and released all three seasons. There won’t be a fourth. It was refreshing.
Where in American shows even if they have some idea where they are going (anti-Lost) they almost never completely shut the door.
Another problem western shows have is their increasingly vague release schedules.
The new Star Treks, Doctor Who, The Witcher, Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul you get them when you get them. (or maybe AMC will decide to break a season in half and give you half this year and half next year.)
Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (a CW musical romantic comedy dealing with mental illness, now on Netflix) did this. The final scene of the fourth and final season was part of the initial pitch for the series.
Not seeing this in any of the comments so far so logged in to say:
Hellbound was an awesome show and it is worth a watch!
It’s being advertised as a mixture between horror and action but it is neither. Instead, it’s a commentary on modern society mixed in with with mystery. And it’s excellently done (minus one-two scenes perhaps).
It's mainly due to the fact that streaming took over the world almost completely,and ktv attached very well to this phenomenon.Korean drama has always been good(it's very similar and reminiscent of eastern european drama, which is very dark[arguably from the post-war,ex-eastern-bloc mentality which in SK somewhat doesn't wash away due to NK] but realistic ,often inspired from truth; which makes it attractive), and compared to 5-10 years ago where you'd have a lot of fantastic and (sometimes overly-)romantic series, somewhat similar to chinese or even indian pictures, they detached from that and instead adopted a more western/US style, though still remaining different.This is a cultural shift in general so it was to be expected.
The subjects have changed, the transition from other streaming platforms to netflix (k-tv was big in the streaming world before netflix took over the planet) was very easy for the ktv audience, and why not let's mention the uncomfortable obvious here: it did not go woke, due to which they have a lot of success amongst western audience.
Fun but also infuriating at times for me. Without spoiling, when the characters were being presented with evidence as strong as possible that X occurred because of Y and not Z they kept scratching their heads wondering if Z wasn't the cause of X after all. They were at times more stupid than a gang of drunken teenagers in an 80s horror movie, not top class scientists, astronauts and soldiers. What I kept wondering is, what am I missing? Is this a cultural difference? Is the translation difficult?
Simplest explanation, it's just not great writing/directing.
The visuals may have been too good. I was expecting some Expanse level space stuff when I saw their ship. Instead, their lander detached from their rocket while in orbit and... began to fall?
This criticism is funny because this is exactly what happens in the Expanse book. I have never watched the series but in the book they kept referring to kinetic bombardment as "release bombs and let them just fall to the ground", and other glaring scientific errors.
> when the characters were being presented with evidence as strong as possible that X occurred because of Y and not Z they kept scratching their heads wondering if Z wasn't the cause of X after all. They were at times more stupid than a gang of drunken teenagers in an 80s horror movie, not top class scientists, astronauts and soldiers. What I kept wondering is, what am I missing? Is this a cultural difference?
This is pretty common in cases where an existing ideology specifies that Z causes X. I assume that's true in all cultures.
And you haven't described them that way. If they were hardcore ideologues, they wouldn't be saying "are we sure it isn't Z?". They'd be saying "but it's Z".
…if you like a S. Korean version of Alien (right down to the string-filled theme music). If someone pulled out a flamethrower in those air ducts, I would have likely thrown the remote at the TV.
That said, we’re still watching it with two episodes left. If there is a second season, it’s debatable if we will watch it. I went in prejudiced to like it, too, as I like Bae Doona in everyone thing we’ve watched her in. The contradiction I can’t get around is that the set work is good for the most part, but the writing is either losing a lot in translation (we watch English audio/subtitles) or it’s just plain poor. And if you were complaining about the science in Gravity, stay well away from this one.
One thing that is easy to miss in the first episode: the moon base has “artificial gravity”. How does it work? Why, it works by making the filming easier. :-) Alright, I’ll give them that one, as we all have to work within a budget. But the rest of things you’re thinking of, yeah, suspending my disbelief was really difficult. I mean, how much more would guy wires have added to the budget?
I agree with this one; I think that SK TV is slowly making waves internationally, not just with the squid game series but also with other shows. SK has a great show in their arsenal, having no surprise why this is on the headlines right now.
SK Government takes their support of entertainment industry very seriously. It is a national brand thing, improves SK's reputation which means better economy long term.
I am not sure SK TV taking over the world signals much:
SK TV are essentially Hollywood TV casted with SK people. If you watch Squid Game, and you think that SK people would think and behave like what the TV shows, then you would be wrong.
This essentially is hollywood transfers its manufacturing capacity to SK, just like American industry transfers its manufacturing capacity to China.
It's not SK tv took over the world. It's SK tv production get integrated into Hollywood entertainment market.
> SK TV are essentially Hollywood TV casted with SK people.
I'm not even sure what you want to claim, Hollywood has been long associated with the film industry and not the television industry.
Assuming you are referring to the general USA television: I don't feel so, especially being a South Korean and aware of SK television for decades [1]. For an easy example, the 2021 South Korean TV drama with the highest rating (17.37%) was Mr. Queen (철인왕후) from tvN, a drama cable TV channel, and it is a (Korean) medieval-themed fantasy drama based on a PRC drama Go Princess Go (太子妃升职记). Such dramas and films have been popular in SK and I'm not sure there is an equivalent in the States.
[1] I should clarify that television has been in decline like everywhere else and most audiences have switched to YouTube and OTT services by now.
Assuming you are referring to the Hollywood film industry: of course the influence exists, but the SK film industry directly competes with the Hollywood in the domestic market and if your claim is true the domestic industry would have had hard time, but it doesn't seem so at least for now. In fact this seems to be the real reason behind the current K-whatever trend; it has survived the Hollywood and is not well known until now so it is a fresh alternative to the Hollywood and other well-known film industries.
> If you watch Squid Game, and you think that SK people would think and behave like what the TV shows, then you would be wrong.
> SK TV are essentially Hollywood TV casted with SK people. If you watch Squid Game, and you think that SK people would think and behave like what the TV shows, then you would be wrong.
Can you clarify your thought here? American people don't think and behave like they do in Hollywood TV shows. There are exceptions of course, but most pop TV shows do not attempt to accurately portray real human relationships, emotions, actions etc.
Do you mean to say that there is something particularly American about Squid Game? When I, an American, watched it my biggest thought was that it seemed very much like an anime. Especially some of the early scenes like the chase by the loan sharks or the paper game played in the subway. It felt distinctly not like normal American television in that regard, though of course you can't create TV in 2020 without having some influence by Hollywood.
> Can you clarify your thought here? American people don't think and behave like they do in Hollywood TV shows. There are exceptions of course, but most pop TV shows do not attempt to accurately portray real human relationships, emotions, actions etc.
To add onto this, it's also worth noting that many movies/shows/etc are actively trying to challenge a dominant culture or way of thinking.
Hardly surprising. The world is turning American, in culture, in religion, and worldviews, despite supposed political rivalry and "traditional heritage".
There is no Japan, no China, no India, no Europe. We have US with varying flavors around the world in essence - atleast if not for the plebs, certainly in the elites (who tend to be self-replicating).
This is incredibly sad to be honest. I love the interconnectivity of the modern web, and social media allows us to share our thoughts freely and communicate ideas at a scale never before seen in human history, but the consequence of this is the limitation on culture. It used to be the case that cultures developed in a silo'd fashion, and this gave way for some very advanced and different ways to doing things. When our ancestors visited a new location they would find new people with a completely different view of the world. Now everyone thinks the same, acts the same, the culture is the same. We've opened the box on shared thinking and the result is that we'll never have an era of silent cultivation on ideas - the mind virus is live.
That isn't quite accurate. Actual siloed cultures are downright stagnant. Advancements come from trade and cross connections. The closest thing you would see are parallel evolutions, which are often more geographically linked. Silent cultivation of ideas is also an oxymoronic notion - ideas grow from interactions.
Likewise their view of the world never was completely different nor those from within the same culture completely the same.
You're right of course - the Romans took from the Greeks, the Greeks took from the Egyptians, etc etc. Ideas adapt over time and cross cultures. Still, I can't help but have a romantic view of cultures, perhaps because up until this point it has taken centuries for ideas to develop and catch on, as our mediums weren't as efficient as what we have now. Prior to the printing press, it was hand art, and spoken word prevailed to tell stories and divulge ideas. Nowadays a single YouTube video has a thousand times more the impact. This is what we lose when we have mass medium like the modern era of the internet. I know it's naive thinking
Cross connections may matter less if the actual cultural differences tendd towards a monoculture… will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next millennia, but we won’t be here to know:)
If you ever tried to watch central europe tv, for example Czech and Slovak TV shows, then you would understand why people prefer American production. It is pure trash. With exception of couple Czech movies.
Well, to me American movie industry is dead. I can't name any good movie after 2010. It's extremely primitive now: no dialogs, just violence, giant explosions, and/or "diversity" that usually is extremely weird because it is unnatural and feels too forced.
E.g. I went to see the last Bond movie and slept the good portion of it. I never actually liked Bond movies, they're too shallow, but the last one was both shallow and dull.
I didn't spend my money to see the remake of Matrix - first comments from friends acknowledged what I suspected: it is a half-baked attempt to squeeze more money from the famous name without trying to make it interesting: why bother, when most of the audience will pay for the ticket anyway just because of the name.
European movies are bad only when they try to emulate Hollywood. Copying something that is already rotten, seldom results in good product. But sometimes there're pretty good European movies, when they don't try to copycat Hollywood.
Watching a movie from the James Bond series, expecting anything other than violence, giant explosions, and the absence of substantially gripping dialog - was probably your first mistake.
The James Bond series have all been popcorn flicks for decades - I'm not sure using this particular example solidifies your point at all.
> The James Bond series have all been popcorn flicks for decades - I'm not sure using this particular example solidifies your point at all.
Yes, indeed. I went to see the last Bond because I was tired from my job and I wanted to see road races and big explosions. To see something simple that doesn't require brains to process. But it ended up so boring, that I've slept in an uncomfortable (for sleeping) cinema chair.
> no dialogs, just violence, giant explosions, and/or "diversity" that usually is extremely weird because it is unnatural and feels too forced
I mean a lot of them are. But, come on, there have been a lot of great movies and TV series since 2010. Maybe where you are living only imports block busters.
> Maybe where you are living only imports block busters.
I'm talking mostly about movies that you can see in movie theaters where I live. There are probably good movies, but they are not demonstrated in movie theaters and it's hard to know about them.
I think the creative American video content now comes out of "TV". Saying TV in a very loose sense, as most of this serialized long form content is consumed through apps now instead of traditional broadcast or cable television.
Is this because of budget? Or because of writing or the themes are not commercial enough?
How many really good movies or show were created in 2021 and how many average ones, how many of those good movies or shows are based on some book/novel/script by an non american writer? US might just have the money to push a giant steam of productions and eventually you get a few good stuff in a giant pile of garbage or mediocrity.
In a small nation with limited cultural outreach, the only way to make a return on the investment is to target the largest demographic group - 50-70 year olds, high-school educated - with low-brow, casual, anodyne content. Trying to fill any other niche is a commercial suicide. If you're not a part of that demographic group - tough luck, there's nothing on the domestic market for you. To make matters worse, the talent pool is really shallow, leading to the same clique of ~20 actors in literally every single film or TV show
+1 In India, at least some of the blame lies with the film industry. Having had a monopoly for so long, they were lax in saving prints of their movies and making them available on DVD (now streaming platforms). There is no Indian equivalent of the Criterion collection and this is really killing them. The internet and a lot of Gen-Z Indian kids have picked up all the "bollywoodrealism" material (which is easily memable) and ignore the treasure trove of films that India has produced.
I don’t think that is a fair characterization of k-drama. If anything, the closer analogy would be what the Japanese automotive industry did in the 80’s. They took a massive, bloated, stagnant industry, reinvented and perfected it, and then exported back to America.
> This essentially is hollywood transfers its manufacturing capacity to SK, just like American industry transfers its manufacturing capacity to China.
I think this perspective is one of my many lenses you can apply to this. Another perspective is that Americans and Koreans share a longstanding history in both war and culture, and for many decades now everyday working people between the US and SK have been collaborating and bonding together. Like yeah you can say that recent collaborations between Hollywood and SK is just Capitalists Doing Capitalism, but even with the corporate restraints and conflicts-of-interest we all know too well, these works are still the product of real people working together and expressing themselves.
> Until the Japanese and Koreans bring out the guillotines and finally get rid of the old untouchable families that run their societies (politics, economics, and everything else) ...
I'm not sure what TV drama you are gaining your knowledge of East Asia from, but it's definitely not an actual history. You do know these two countries pretty much burnt down to grounds in the mid-20th century and had to be rebuilt, no?
Chung Ju-yung, the founder of the Hyundai group and once one of the richest guys in South Korea, was born a son of a farmer.
> In Japan, a country considered by many as quasi-Western and on par or ahead of the EU and US, organised crime is a legal pillar of society simply for the fact that it has always been that way.
Yakuza membership is down 10x from their peak in the 1960s and decreasing. A series of laws/regulations and changing cultural norms since the 1990s have increasingly constrained their ability to operate.
I'd say a country where anyone could look up the headquarters of a crime syndicate in the phone directory or on Google Maps hasn't actually done much to constrain their ability to operate.
> to be more presentable business partners to the West
It's interesting how you expect Korea and Japan to be "presentable" to the West, as if there exists a power relationship between the East and the West.
Perhaps they could just be themselves and the West should accept different cultures uphold different values?
You are describing multi-ethical cultural relativism, which is a feel-good idea indeed, but if you think about it, you'll quite quickly arrive at the realisation that the worst atrocities imaginable could be excused with it: "But if it's their culture / tradition...?"
In the real world, all cultures constantly judge other cultures by their own morals and values.
There is still a lot of stuff in modern Japanese and Korean culture that must not be brought to international attention, or the meticulously built image would be shattered, with consequences for political and economical relations.
Not many people know that in Japan for example, organised crime syndicates have official, legal business addresses and office buildings. Imagine any Western country allowing that - it would be shunned by its partners in an instant.
Yes, there are certainly some acts that are universally recognised as atrocities/intolerable, but such acts are not unique to the East; the West also had its fair share of organised crime.
If we agree that societies all tend to gravitate towards a more progressive model as they develop, then perhaps the discussion would be more of an modern-vs-historic one rather than East-vs-West one.
> the West also had its fair share of organised crime
That's missing the point: Which is that in Japan (and maybe other East Asian societies), organised crime isn't even seen as crime, and the people perpetrating it aren't seen as criminals. They don't have to do it in the underground like for instance the Mafia has to in Italy.
Only after WW2 when the US restructured Japan somewhat, they forced Japan to call these syndicates "organised crime". Before that, they were simply a part of society that "might do some bad stuff, but only to people who deserve it" but also "lots of good for the community".
Not many people in Japan will agree or even know what you mean when you tell them you think the Yakuza is a problem for Japanese society. They are well liked, unless they draw negative attention to Japan itself.
> organised crime isn't even seen as crime, and the people perpetrating it aren't seen as criminals
Do you speak of your own first-hand experience, or you got the impression from some material you read? I don't think they are that different from how Mafia is perceived.
Regarding Whataboutism --- I find the accusation really low-effort. My point has never been "The West has/had organised crime so what's the problem with the East having it?"; rather, I am pointing out how you seem to think "The West is superior just because and the East should appreciate being patronisied by the West", while the West had also experienced many of the issues you described. Of course Japan has its problems, but I'd argue it would be up to the Japanese people to figure out what they are and how to solve them.
The key difference you seem to be missing is, in very simple terms, that organised crime in the West is universally accepted as a negative thing and the people who perpetrate it need to keep their identities and operations secret.
While in Japan, that's not the case: Every Japanese knows what local businesses are run by the Yakuza, knows where local Yakuza headquarter is (it's not hard to find even for foreigners - it's usually a house with 24/7 shuttered windows, high spiked fences, and grim looking guys hanging out in front.
In Italy, that house would get raided in an instant. In Japan, it's just part of the neighborhood, people don't go near it, but otherwise ignore it.
Japan's problems are very unique and no Western country has them. I stand by that. And of course if they want to keep it that way, so be it - but then Japan should not at the same time pretend they're a country of law worthy of a G7 membership. They probably should go back to Sakoku because this two-faced way to be is honourless - and they allegedly put great importance on the concept of "honour", right?
And yes, this is all my personal observation from living in Japan for a couple of years.
What makes a country "worthy" of G7 membership? Does constant war-waging disqualifies a country from G7? Unfair treatment of a minority group, perhaps?
I'd argue that expecting countries/organisations to behave like virtuous individuals would be too naïve.
Also I feel Japanese honour is more about loyalty than ethics. Trying to shame them for tolerating crime syndicates probably won't make a difference.
I think being a country of law, which Japan is decidedly not, is a must-have for G7 membership.
I'm not American and have never set foot in the US, so don't take my criticism of Japan as some sort of "America #1" cultural chauvinism.
Well you already suggested that you are an European so that was a given. What I meant was judging a country's "worthiness" is already a weird notion --- how should "country of law" be quantified and compared? Who gets to say which country / system of law is better or worse?
The notion that a group of rich and powerful countries gets to decide how other countries should behave when said rich and powerful countries got to where they are through (both past and ongoing) atrocious exploitations of other people doesn't sound particularly convincing, don't you think?
Japan does not have a system of law. They were forced by the US after WW2 to pretend they care about these things, so they just looked what other countries have, translated it, and from then on they were able to show anyone who asked "see here we have these huge volumes with lots of written down laws, what do you want from us?"
But in reality, laws are extremely relative in Japan, much more so than in any stable Western country.
> Every Japanese knows what local businesses are run by the Yakuza, knows where local Yakuza headquarter is
False for most people. Organized crime is universally accepted as a negative thing in Japan, obviously. I found you post falsehoods about Japan constantly. You may had gotten bad experiences.
"Not many people know that in Japan for example, organised crime syndicates have official, legal business addresses and office buildings. Imagine any Western country allowing that - it would be shunned by its partners in an instant."
Can you please recommend any good books to get to know the subject. This to me sounds so out of place that it would be interesting to know more.
Both are real eye openers. The first is a must-read and very good overview. The latter concentrates on post-WW2's construction state but don't be repelled by that, because the construction sector is what is at the base of Japan's current problems.
While I don't disagree about the solutions, I do have to point out that Europe still has as many as several hereditary monarchs, and that in, for example, Florence, the richest families of today are the same ones that were the richest in 1427.
Yes, with the important difference that in Japan, the "old families" are still holding their political power, while in Europe, they just kept their money.
I was surprised to hear that he lived much of his professional life in S. Korea building out The Simpsons (decades ago) and why/how the work was outsourced there. He told me that labor and talent was abundant and affordable.
This made me think of a possible reason as to how S. Korea's entertainment industry has become successful worldwide. That is, just as outsourced manufacturing/operations helps countries build out the infrastructure and gradually transform into a country for developing quality products/services, something similar happened where the grunt work of entertainment was outsourced helping S. Korea build out the underlying infrastructure until it had enough talent and capabilities to enable a larger ownership over the product/vision and become a major player itself.