> somebody had to explain to them there are people in the world who are discriminated against, but aren't black.
As a Russian, this is amusing to read. For me and most people I know, when you meet a black person, it's totally normal to ask them "where are you from" because they can't possibly be local. Our society just doesn't have the concept of racism it seems because of the exceeding rarity of people who aren't European or Asian.
People in Russia are often discriminated against based on their sexual orientation, political views, and nationality though.
> Our society just doesn't have the concept of racism
I'd say "racism" those days is a fairly weird word that I've seen infrequently applied as an umbrella term covering many different things.
It's almost certainly true that there is virtually no "classical" (black vs white) racism there. Russia never had any significant fraction of black population, and the flavors of slavery were quite different from the US. When Russian sees a black person, while their inner voice would surely say "this person is an alien", there's most likely would be no immediate derogatory prejudice involved - because to best of my awareness it was never instilled, at least not in the Soviet and post-Soviet mindspace.
But in Russia there surely is something similar, just of a different flavor - again, because of different history and societal composition. Say, doubtlessly there are tons of prejudices based on ethnicity - just remember how many derogatory names and jokes are there (and always were) for neighboring nations such as Ukrainians (this is so fucked up!), Georgians, Tajiks or Uzbeks; or Russian ethniticies - especially Chechens (this nationality is pretty touchy conversation subject).
While I'm sure the shape of discrimination in your culture is different and not heavily racial, it's unwise to conclude that racial discrimination isn't happening just because you don't see the textbook version of it in front of you. The assumption that a black person can't possibly be local can lead some people to act in a discriminatory way that would produce bad outcomes.
A good example would be some of the pieces out there about what it's like to live in Japan as a black person, like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMpxLmMnS6M - their society is definitely not going to racially discriminate like the US does, but that doesn't mean you won't experience any discrimination or unusual treatment due to your skin color being different.
Also, if people get discriminated against based on their nationality and you just said a black person can't possibly be From Here... it seems like if you combine those two statements that would mean black people would naturally get discriminated against since they're foreigners?
> Also, if people get discriminated against based on their nationality and you just said a black person can't possibly be From Here...
The nationality thing is more about those who work customer-facing jobs here. Like, you call a taxi, it arrives but you can't find where. You call the driver to ask where they stopped, but the driver is from Tajikistan or Uzbekistan and barely speaks any Russian. It is frustrating when you can't use your native language in your home country for something as mundane as asking the taxi driver where they are. Besides, they usually do their jobs much more shoddily, get paid less, and have lower standards. So, yes, these people have this kind of reputation, but every rule has its exceptions.
But then if someone is a foreign student for example, they are never treated like that. So I guess this discrimination is not against the nationality per se, but against people bringing their customs into someone else's society and refusing to blend in?
It's exceedingly unlikely, as historically there's no resident population with African descent and migration was very limited; a black person could have been born and raised in a Russian city, but that would be a rare occurrence as those people are far outnumbered by tourists or temporary students from Africa; and this would also depend on the city - Moscow is a bit more international where e.g. Patrice Lumumba University teaching elites from USSR-friendly African states, however for most regional cities with million+ people there were literally 0 people with African descent when the Iron Curtain fell, so obviously any current adult black person could not have been born and raised there.
Either way, people here aren't discriminated based on their race. Never were. This particular problem seems to be uniquely American because of their history.
We do have a word for racism by the way. It's, unsurprisingly, "расизм".
> Either way, people here aren't discriminated based on their race. Never were. This particular problem seems to be uniquely American because of their history.
I suspect you are overlooking some pretty pervasive discrimination against minority groups because you have become accustomed to it, and/or because you aren't personally affected by it. While racism in Russia appears to have been improving over the last decade or so, it is hardly absent.
As a Russian, I confirm racism is rampant in the country. I don't know if it is even waning anymore, considering the increasingly strong orthodox church and bigotry as indicated by the ongoing war and popularity of the regime that started it.
Anyone who thinks otherwise: go out and talk to ethnically Asian people more. (For an outsider, keep in mind that anywhere in Russian Siberia there are very large indigenous Asian populations in proportion to total.)
My Asian friends are routinely discriminated against purely based on their appearance: subject to searches at subway entrances, subject to disdainful attitude by government officials, salespeople and other citizens. They will have trouble renting flats, etc.
This is significantly worse in western parts of Russia (where you can be targeted by gangs and skinheads), but is still present in their part of the country.
And it is those who were lucky to have gone to good schools and speak perfect Russian. Things are dimmer for someone who has a stronger accent.
Most of my Asian friends never talk about it, but one did, after which I started making observations and reevaluating past ones and recognized that it is very much true.
Those of middle eastern ethnicities (often immigrants and their descendants) have likely even harder time.
> As a Russian, I confirm racism is rampant in the country. I don't know if it is even waning anymore...
Yeah, I had my doubts too. The Wikipedia article claims that racist attacks have been on the decline, and supports that claim with some statistics from the SOVA Center. But I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were simply because those attacks have become so commonplace that they aren't reported at all, or that reports are being actively suppressed.
America certainly takes racism to extremes, but it's not a problem unique to the US - racism is a thing all over Europe and Asia too, to varying degrees.
I've never been to Russia, but I'm finding it hard to believe racism doesn't exist there.
having lived in Russia, I assure you there's a lot of pretty open racism there, racist slurs are openly and widely used for anyone who's not a slav, and even some slavs now as well (e.g. Ukrainians)
Racism is a problem in large parts of Europe, and generally any country with a history involving enslaved Africans. I wouldn't be surprised if ethnic discrimination in Russia went a different direction though, since their colonization all happened in central Asia, where skin color isn't all that informative.
(Not a historian, so fully expect half of this to be wrong in one way or another.)
> Either way, people here aren't discriminated based on their race. Never were.
That is untrue.
You could argue the “pale of settlement” (instituted shortly after the annexation of parts of Poland made Jews more than a rounding error) was discrimination based on religion, not ancestry (and indeed it seems to have had some resemblance to the suppression of Old Rite communities, which did not have any particular ethnic composition as far as I know). But the distance between the two is easily bridged (one only needs to look at Ireland to see that), and by the 20th century it was, thoroughly, as evidenced by things ranging from Stalin’s Jewish resettlement attempts in the 30s and 40s (whence the “Jewish autonomous region”) to the ethnic quotas and heavily biased exams at the Mekhmat and elsewhere in the 70s and 80s (supported not only by a mass of mostly-forgotten university functionaries, but also by some of the genuine greats such as Pontrjagin, cf You Failed Your Math Test, Comrade Einstein).
(That last part is why any intentional bias or quota in admissions gives me the chills. Nothing will go wrong, surely.)
It’s not only the Jews, of course. The common euphemistic appellation for the situation on the Caucasus, “tensions”, hides a morass of mutual hatreds that is centuries deep, though again the results of Stalin’s disastrous resettlement efforts are best characterized as “fallout”, and the two Chechen wars intended as election publicity for Putin did not help. But a close look at the 19th-century colonization of the region as described indirectly by authors like Lermontov gives the impression that the whole thing was pretty fucked up even then.
(If you want to dismiss these places as “not really Russia”, you are proving my point, even if there are senses in which that statement is true.)
Shall we talk about the undocumented and (thus) vastly underpaid Middle Eastern migrant workers who have sustained most of Moscow’s municipal infrastructure for the last two decades? (Though perhaps not for much longer, given the recent monetary restrictions.) Who have reversed much of its despair- and alcohol-fueled collapse of the late Soviet times? That the low-wage jobs should go to them may not be not explicitly xenophobic (except inasmuch as any system of employment controls for foreigners is), just the result of the how the USSR was organized and how it fell apart; but I have an acquaintance who has adopted a child from there, and their experiences both with officials and with strangers off-handedly insulting the child or the family sound pretty straightforwardly racist to me.
And, well, let us be honest and acknowledge the mutual feeling of otherness between people from Central or Northern Russia and those from West Ukraine, Belarus, or even the south of the country as it currently is. It can range from having a stereotypical funny-talking character in jokes to toppling monuments, rewriting history, and going to war, but it’s been there for a long time, and the distance between these two extremes isn’t nearly as large as I’d like.
(Navalnyj has distant relatives in Ukraine? Everybody has distant relatives in Ukraine. If you want commentary on the Golodomor and whether it fits here, though, you’ll need to find someone qualified enough to talk specifics about it.)
This is not at all an exhaustive list. (What about the Tatars? The Russian Germans? The postwar expulsions, tacitly accepted by the West, that turned Königsberg into Kaliningrad and Danzig into Gdańsk? I’m sure there are things I’ve never heard of as well.) It might be that there is no “racism” in the precise North American mold in Russia or around it, but that is only because that mold is uninteresting (and to the extent that the opposition to it is built around its incidental features, that opposition is missing the point, although I would not claim to be the one to make it the Right Way). Xenophobia towards people inside or just outside the country, now that we have plenty of, and so does everybody else living on the ruins of an empire.
That is if the economic structures originating from serfdom in the Empire or from internal migration restrictions in the USSR are not enough for you. They might not always have an ethnic bent, but is that really that much of a consolation?..
As a Russian, this is amusing to read. For me and most people I know, when you meet a black person, it's totally normal to ask them "where are you from" because they can't possibly be local. Our society just doesn't have the concept of racism it seems because of the exceeding rarity of people who aren't European or Asian.
People in Russia are often discriminated against based on their sexual orientation, political views, and nationality though.