I've found it easy to stop a great deal of such behaviors by examining not what they promise to deliver, but what they actually brought. I.e. don't look forward, look backward when making decisions.
Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets.
Junk food promises a great time. Junk food delivers poor health and regrets.
Going to the gym promises hardship and struggle. It delivers health. I've never once regretted it.
Reading a book promises struggling and boredom. It delivers wisdom and inspiration. I've never once regretted it.
If you compare what you think you will happen with what you know will happen from experience, it's very easy to see how often you are misjudging these things.
Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets
Sure, but simply ignoring the time in between where alcohol effectively does deliver a great time, and which is for many people the addictive aspect of it, isn't exactly easy. Or at least not quite as easy as downplaying the hangover and regrets, as addicts often do.
And since your core advice is basically not to misjudge, it's extra weird to me to leave out parts. At least in my opinion you should look at the whole issue. But then judge by assigning value to it: is the great time really great, or is it just you hanging in a chair, head spinning and almost too drunk to be able to make conversation? Is it really great, or is it just you so drunk you sometimes fall over while dancing? Was it really a great time coming up with philosophical insights into mankind, or was it all just bullshit?
Going to the gym promises hardship and struggle. It delivers health. I've never once regretted it.
This suffers from the same issue, but the other way around. Sports can result in blessures, especially the more extreme ones. You shouldn't imo just ignore that. Instead be honest to yourself and call it what it is: it's addictive, it makes you feel great, it delivers health, and all of that is enough to make the occasional (depending on what you do) pain (physical, but also mental i.e. getting depressed because not able to work out) worth it.
Ultimately, pleasures and hardships fade, what remains at the end is what we accomplished and what we regret. That is, the very memories I'm suggesting you use to evaluate your habits.
You had a good time at a party once. Great. Are you really still enjoying that good time? Not likely.
You climbed a mountain another time. You were tired and it was very difficult. Are you still exhausted months later? Not likely. But the accomplishment remains the rest of your life.
I remember injuries from exercising and other things involving exercise because they lasted months or forever.
You’re acting as if exercise never has any drawbacks - like the other commenter said. It definitely does. Getting injured is part of it and is a routine issue for many people - you try to avoid it but it just happens.
I’ve had issues with my patella tracking for years now. My fingers don’t act the same cause of a minor incident while skiing. I’ve got wrists that make funny noises and aren’t as strong because I nearly broke both (but only broke 1) while playing ultimate 15 years ago.
Do you think I forget that shit? I don’t cause I have to live with it everyday.
The whole thread makes me think of the young vs the old. Young people can’t fathom how injuries that were no big deal at 22 can take you out at 50. Same with drinking frankly, I used to be able to drink with no hangovers but that stopped years ago.
This sort of applies to misguided training as well. If you are into training, training like an idiot with get-jacked-quick schemes like german volume training 7 days a week or the bulgarian method or whatever, that sure may appear sweet before you try it. A torn ACL or rotator cuff later, and maybe it wasn't such a great idea.
In retrospect, boring modest training would have gotten you a lot farther.
There are risks that cannot be fully mitigated in your climbing a mountain example - rockfall, avalanche, unstable terrain, sudden storms, etc.
Going to the gym and doing boring modest stairmaster will be a lot safer than climbing actual mountains. Yet you seem to recommend the accomplishment aspect of climbing mountains.
The mountain is a metaphor, and it's the hard thing you would be proud of yourself if you did. It may be writing a novel or standing on your head or running a successful business or a kickass parent. In an avalanche of tautology, an accomplishment only matters to you if it matters to you.
If it does matter to you, then having tried and failed is arguably better than having been safe and taking no risks and then dying anyway because death knocks on your door no matter how much you try to avoid it.
A lot of athletics is dangerous - I think it's only fair for people to be informed about the risks because often awareness and procedures can mitigate them.
I'm a decently strong climber, and I would never discourage people from trying it. But I think an honest presentation should include the risks
Exactly. I’ve had to stop climbing multiple times due to injuries. It just fucking happens for most of us. I had a fucked up shoulder for 6+ months that limited me from climbing and other activities. Even now - I don’t think about it all the time but it makes different noises and feels than before the incident - and not good ones! It reminds me often of what happened.
I'm a little over a week without alcohol, but I drank every day because I have a lot of difficulty winding down and relaxing. I still do, but I've made the personal decision to prioritize my physical health. How do you square this advice with people who drink because the alternative is highly stressful evenings? Evaluating the history, I can see that drinking _eventually_ led to poorer health, but over the course of years also helped me to wind down and relax when I otherwise couldn't
Of course, all of those other options are actually difficult in certain ways. 2+3+4+5 can all be expensive. 3+4 are stigmatized in many cultures. 2+5 require knowledge that not everyone has.
That said if you're having trouble calming down in the evening, assuming you see a doctor for routine physical examinations, you can discuss options with them. They will know this list and more, and occasionally they can convince your insurance to cover the cost of something. It's better than developing a substance habit.
> Sometimes you push hard, and a good glass wine is exactly what you need.
Because it makes you feel good? You certainly don't need it. It's a crutch. For socialization, sure. But to "wind down" or "de-stress"? That's not healthy in the long term.
> I recommend everyone working out, but when you had a stressful day or week, a gym workout might just add more cortisol.
I've had a couple bad therapists and a good therapist.
The good therapist discouraged me from worrying too much about using a drink at the end of the day as a tool to unwind (I was considering quitting alcohol to try to help my anxiety).
Therapy can be great, but it's not a commodity. Success is highly correlated to a strong relationship between patient and therapist, and finding that is very challenging for me and others I've discussed that with.
For me alcohol increased my baseline anxiety. When I stopped drinking my anxiety basically went away completely. It was a licensed alcohol and drug therapist that clued me in to that. So the experience of the therapist may matter.
I also started cold exposure and breathing exercises. Now I was skeptical of that stuff for sure at first but I think you can increase your stress tolerance and also train and reconnect your bodies nervous systems. It's a neurobiological thing.
I do the breathing exercises when I get stressed and that takes 5-10mins of effort. After which I've forgotten what I was stressed about. So it breaks the rumination cycle for me.
Yeah your advice is for people to be more careful. That's one way that works a bit. And normally is what you come to with therapists.
Then there is also a way to be more wild, not take things to serious and push further. That's a narrative that's very powerful but missing very much lately.
I was also a daily drinker for years. My experience was after a while, the booze was not really helping me unwind. It was increasing my base level of anxiety, creating the “need” to use it to unwind. I could only see this after I stopped for several months.
climbing a mountain might be completely unmemorable for one person and going to a party could be that thing to others. I do not know anyone who ever brings up their friend who climbed a mountain (and I know a handful of people who do) but I can recall many stories of people at parties doing insert wacky memorable activity.
Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets.
I drink alcohol at least 2 or 3 times a week. I can't remember the last time I had a hangover. I just don't drink an excessive amount.
Junk food promises a great time. Junk food delivers poor health and regrets.
I eat junk food a few times every month. I'm above average on most health metrics.
Going to the gym promises hardship and struggle. It delivers health. I've never once regretted it.
I don't go to the gym. I do lead a reasonably active lifestyle though.
Reading a book promises struggling and boredom. It delivers wisdom and inspiration. I've never once regretted it.
I give up on books that aren't interesting within the first chapter. There are lots of books I regret wasting time on.
There's no simple 'rules' or 'logic' to having a fun lifestyle that means you get the most out of your time on Earth. You can be fit, healthy, and enjoy things while drinking, eating some junk, and never going to the gym. Life is made up of many, many variables, and what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for the next person.
Do your own thing. Figure out your own life. Let others figure out theirs.
Strength is the ability to break a chocolate bar into four pieces with your bare hands and then eat just one of those pieces. – Judith Viorst
People are made different. Some are more binge oriented, seems those also feel the most guilt after consumption and then they restrain for a longer time, then they fall worse. I'm like that, when I do something I'm all in, seems like a awesome thing when I'm into good things, but otherwise prone do get addicted to bad ones.
I noticed others who are more detached, don't feel that guilt and can stop when they want like you. Seems the better way to approach things is in "smaller bites".
Anything good in too great measure can become bad after all.
I don't know, I'm struggling with youtube of all things. Blocking extensions seem to work for a while...
I just disabled all recommendations, makes it way easier to not get caught up. You shouldn't say "of all things". They have hundreds of highly intelligent engineers working around the clock to get you addicted.
The secret, as I posted elsewhere, is that self-control is something you need to practice, like going to the gym for your amygdala. Every time your resolve wavers, resisting temptations gets harder. Every time you resist, the next time gets easier.
This is what accounts for the stark differences in outlook. If you've practiced this, it feels easy, and it can be difficult to even relate to how others struggle. If you don't, it feels impossible, and it can be difficult to relate to how others find it so easy.
It can be a surprisingly quick process. If you have some impossibly tempting snack you're struggling to resist, if you just grin and willpower your way through it a couple of times, rough as they may be, it takes less willpower each time. By the 5th or 6th time you've done this, it's maybe still effortful, but already noticeably easier. By the 20th time, you may not even feel the temptation at all.
... depending on what's got you hooked, obviously. Substance addictions may linger for a longer time, but the principle is the same. Even if you still crave cigarettes two months after you've quit, it's nowhere near as bad as it was 5 days in.
It's not without reason almost every culture has had rituals of fasting or abstinence. It turns out this is a pretty good thing to practice every once in a while, even if you don't have to become a desert ascetic or go full Jocko Willink in the process.
My own middle path has evolved out of many things, but I imagine the three most prominent are:
1. Delayed gratification as part of childhood upbringing
2. Training to silence the internal dialogue
3. Appreciation of the miniature
bonus:
4. Bach
I suspect these things have kept me from the alcoholism that is rampant in my family. I truly enjoy a few strong drinks a week, though sometimes I forget about alcohol for months or years.
But let me ask, what do you have in your existential toolbox that helps you do this?
I realized that I occupy very little space in other people's minds. Not just me though, this is true of everyone.
I'm not exceptional or famous or rich. People may see me but they don't care. I don't mean that in a self-effacing "I wish they would care though!" way. I just mean that everyone is living their own life, fighting their own battles, and not really spending a lot of time thinking about other people. We think we're being judged harshly by those around us when we do things we perceive are bad, but the reality is that we're not. Other people aren't thinking about us at all.
Consider this - if you go to a bar and see 300 other people, you might notice half a dozen and think "Hot", "Fat", "Even hotter", "Ugly", "Drunk", "Slightly less hot than the first one". You don't really see the other 294 people. And after 5 minutes you've forgotten them all. Even the hottest one. Everyone is like that. Why put any stock in what they might be thinking when the probability is very high that you aren't in their thoughts at all?
I can live my life the way I want to because I don't really care about what other people think of me, because I realized that they just don't think about me.
I will add that I do care about what my partner and my close friends think, but I'm also able to accept that they'd tell me if they thought something about me was 'wrong'. I don't need to worry about their opinions because I can just wait until they share them if they want to.
I suspect the reason I'm able to think this way is that my partner is a therapist and talking to her for a decade has given me some useful tools for introspectively understanding what's going on in my head.
> I suspect the reason I'm able to think this way is that my partner is a therapist and talking to her for a decade has given me some useful tools for introspectively understanding what's going on in my head.
I did not post the previous comment but I am pretty much the same… I can indulge in alcohol and junk food with moderation (again I think my last hungover was more than 15 years ago)! I think to be able to “control” yourself one must posses discipline and mental health (and good genetics). I don’t drink to “escape” or “relax”… I genuinely like beer and wine for their taste (usually with some good food).
Obviously, I was just answering the point that "Junk food delivers poor health and regrets." Junk food doesn't do that. Junk food in excess does.
People repeating the boring mantra of "Eat well, stop drinking, go to the gym, read improving books" are just trying to exert control over the lives of others, especially if they do it in a preachy "You'll regret it if you don't!" way. It's an unimaginative lifestyle with no room for joy. Everyone can enjoy life and embrace bad things on occasion without doing irreparable harm to themselves. If someone choose a shitty diet that is their decision to make. It's not up to you, me, or anyone else to tell others how to live.
>Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets.
The level of simplicity being applied here suggests to me you've never been an alcoholic nor spent much time with alcoholics. This advice is at the same level of "just think positively" when addressing depression; it's almost laughably out of touch and unhelpful.
It's great that you find it easy to exhibit such control over your behaviors, but it's important to remember that the reason alcohol is the most widely abused drug in history is because to the vast, vast majority of people, an 'easy' internal examination isn't enough to permanently change one's behavior.
It's important to understand that resolve is something you need to practice, it's like a muscle. Every time you give in to a temptation, your resolve weakens. Every time you resist, it gets stronger.
Practicing like this quite literally rewires your brain. Strengthens the ability of the amygdala to regulate behavior. If you give in to every impulse, you teach your brain to exercise less impulse control.
This type of advice does work, but only for some people. I would hazard that "some" isn't even a majority of alcoholics or other kinds of addicts. So, it's an interesting perspective to share, but please don't assume that what worked for you is universally good advice for everyone.
You may as well be a patient in a drug trial, one of the let's say 30% that responded well to the drug, but afterwards you go out and claim that it's a cure for everyone... well no, it didn't work for 70% of people.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm sharing my experiences, which are the only experiences I've had, and the basis for my knowledge and understanding of the world.
I will also share the experience that addicts in general are experts at self-deception. They'll have long lists of reasons why their addiction is uniquely impossible to break, and most will dismiss trying anything as a waste of time, not from reflection but as a reflex.
What an arrogant reply. Of course a ~ten line comment about a complex subject is simplistic. It is also accurate to a first approximation. If you want an in-depth study or treatise, buy a book.
Good advice, because that's what I did recently, for alcohol at least.
I'm not sure if it is a result of getting older, change in diet and it doesn't really matter. I like a good wine, beer, whiskey or rum, but in the last six months I started notice that I don't sleep very well after drinking. I can have one or two beer or one glass of wine, but not much more. After that it starts to interfer with my sleep, costing me hours of sleep. Given the choice I'd always put a good nights sleep before a cozy evening with wine. I could just have the one drink, but to me at least, it's simply easier to just not drink at all.
If you're in a settings where you're almost expected to have a drink, you can just use my reasoning, that you don't sleep well after drink alcohol, it's honestly something most people seem to understand.
Small note on the: "just hating yourself when you fail" that's not productive. Recognize that you failed, that it's okay to fail, and examine why. Then start over and try to learn from you mistake. E.g. maybe don't have alcohol in the house, replace it with something else, for me its tea and sparkling water. (Having a replacement beverage for the time when I'd just relax and normally have a drink have helped a lot)
Not a product endorsement (as I'm sure other products would do much the same thing), but after getting an Oura ring and seeing the near realtime impacts on my sleep and readiness after drinking alcohol I found that my alcohol consumption massively decreased.
If you can stick to one beer without a conga line of 7 more, and all you remember it producing is positive effects, then that is hardly problem drinking if you ask me.
I'm not your mom. I'm only offering a framework for making better judgements. If that framework tells you just one beer is beneficial, then cheers.
Actually, yes. If you are someone who only drinks one beer, then your low tolerance means even that single drink will leave you leaving crummy afterwards. Not a full-on "oh dear god please don't mention eggs around me" crummy, but just groggy, headache-y, and so on.
This is me. I only ever drank maybe a glass of wine or one beer every couple of months, and finally realized it was easier just dropping down to effectively zero.
> I wish, a lot of books that ive read were mostly waste of time
Hear, hear! People fetishize books way too much. Most are, indeed, crap.
> your low tolerance means even that single drink will leave you leaving crummy afterwards.
That's not true. As long as you compensate with a bit of water, and you drink quality spirits rather than shit, one or two drinks are absolutely fine even for the low-volume drinker.
Source: am one.
What makes a real difference is that, if you're super-fit and super-lean, your body will struggle harder to deal with alcohol, so you will have to over-compensate by drinking a lot of extra water (and hence piss more).
Agreed mostly. Put other stuff -- mostly water, but some food -- in your stomach, and be aware of the volume and ABV of your one drink, and you can be fine.
Source: I occasionally drink, but it's rare enough that doctors' offices tell me to answer "No" to that question.
Folks, you really cannot even imagine one enjoying THE BEER, right? Its refreshing bitterness and the aroma hops in it and the beautiful refracting light in the pint? If people drink to get trashed and forget about life issues, that's one thing. But if other people drink that one beer because they enjoy it, and are not getting even a tinge from it (as probably nobody with a healthy liver should), then in which category should they belong? Do I drink regularly? Yes I do. Do I ever get drunk, or even dizzy? Never, thank you. Of course one can still say alcohol is unhealthy, as some newer studies suggest, but I still don't buy the drunkness argument (and I drink just as happily an alcohol-free beer but there are like only 2 worth sampling). That's why I don't understand your point "it was easier dropping down to effectively zero" - easier for what/who? Did you get nausea from one glass? I would definitely visit a doctor if that happened to me, because it looks like giving up alcohol was just getting rid of the side effects of something there.
> That's why I don't understand your point "it was easier dropping down to effectively zero" - easier for what/who?
The "for who" was "for me". The "for what" is what I said: any amount leaves me a bit groggy or sleepy afterwards. My theory is that because I rarely drink, it's a mild system shock each time I do. Maybe that's not it, and my body simply doesn't handle alcohol. At any rate, the tradeoff of that great wine with my steak making me want to take a nap the next two hours, I decided it wasn't worth it.
One drink every couple of months is very different from say one drink every night or even one drink 2-3 times a week which is usually what I picture as the typical "one drink" person.
> Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets.
I've always described drinking as “borrowing happiness from tomorrow, sometimes at a high interest rate”.
But like any debt that might actually feel like a good deal at the time, and might actually be a good deal sometimes. And even if it isn't a good deal, if you are someone with a dependency or addiction realising this isn't simple (and even if you realise, taking action (or not) based on that realisation is often far from easy).
Regrets in hindsight are not very effective at moderating behaviour once a physical addiction or phycological (including social) dependency has set in.
Even if it isn't in every case sufficient, it is in most cases greatly beneficial to understand what is good for you in order to lead the best life. Sure, you can sometimes hit the mark by dumb accident, but it's a lot easier if you know what you are aiming for than if you are shooting blind, as it were.
Have you actually had problems with addiction? This sounds like someone who just liked drinking once in a while, and then decided not to.
Actual addiction is much more pernicious, your long-term reasoning faculties are suspended and short-term takes over. "I know this hurts me long term, but one drink isn't that big a deal".
I wish addiction could be kicked with "I thought about it and decided it wasn't good for me, so I stopped", but I don't think it can.
I'm not saying it is easy, but re-programming your thinking by interrogating your assumptions is very much possible (and essentially the core mechanic in cognitive behavioral therapy).
It's also important to note that if I examine how you think, that basically does nothing. You need to do it yourself, earnestly, if it's to have an effect.
Hmm, I think there's more to it than you mention, then. It sounded in the first comment a bit like "I thought about it and I quit", but I guess there's more intention/reflection (and more often) than that?
Can you go into the details a bit more? It sounds interesting.
I think SO many people overlook this very fact. Most people don't need alcohol to have a good time however it's called a "social lubricant" for a reason.
Sometimes people just need a tiny push to become less self conscious or less introverted. Life is short. You can spend years trying to be healthy and perfect but you need to ask yourself whether you're happy while doing that. If the answer is "Yes" then great. If it's "No" then you should reevaluate your path.
On the other hand, there is a risk some people are using alcohol to medicate otherwise treatable conditions such as social anxiety.
That is a spectacularly shitty long term strategy, since an alcohol habit actually increases your general anxiety levels when sober. You shouldn't need to have beer to be comfortable talking to people.
I'm not prone to addiction, but I think it's important to realize that some people are, and they might not know this about themselves. Addiction can start innocently enough but end up in a train wreck, and I think people should be educated about this fact so that they understand the risks that might be caused by the crutch.
My problem is I can drink a bottle of wine and it doesn't really delivery a hangover. I know it's bad for me in the long run but it's hard to resist if it helps me worry less without any negative effects that are immediately noticeable.
Working out doesn't really help in the sense that I can go run 10+ Km and feel great but that still doesn't stop the endless ruminations that drive me crazy.
For myself personally I found mindfulness meditation helping with anxiety. It is however like any excercise: it does not show effects without regular practice over months. And it is not the sitting session itself that helps as much as developing a skill, and habit, of seeing your mind clearly doing what it does. That is applied outside the meditation coushion.
That’s exactly how I manage not regaining the excess weight I had more than 15 years ago. The instant pleasure of food pale in comparison with the pleasure of looking and feeling good that is delivered by having resisted the snack, maybe I’m lucky but I find doing the trade of with myself relatively easy. OTOH stopping cigarettes was immensely more difficult for me, because what is delivered is too far in the future (i.e. when young it was easier to relate to tomorrow me feeling good looking in the mirror than 60 years old me).
This sounds a bit backwards to me. Exercise and proper nutrition shouldn't be seen as hardship you take on because the alternative is worse, but the path to understanding the potential of your body and the joy of physical activity and good food. It's a hedonic activity at its root.
The same goes for book reading, except this time it's about the joy of using your mind and being exposed to different modes of thought. In fact, I'm not sure how you gain wisdom and inspiration if reading the book is boring to you.
The problem with looking at what something delivers is that the time between taking the action and noticing what was delivered. There's often days, weeks, or even months (especially in the case of going to the gym) between doing something and seeing a difference.
When taking a new action (or new inaction), you can even feel worse before feeling better.
It's a good idea but the temporal component skews everything.
Habit formation, even if it's a new habit of not doing something, is something that's worked for me in the past.
> Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets.
Maybe I'm not drinking heavily enough, but I don't really get hangovers. I guess I'm sober enough to remember to drink a couple of glasses of water before I go to sleep? I wake up the next morning feeling fantastic.
Many hangover symptoms, specifically the mental fog, fatigue, and general malaise, are caused by GABA receptor starvation, not by hydration levels.
Like you, I can put down a pint of whiskey and feel mostly fine the next day. This is due to differences in homeostatic mechanisms between people, and the time it takes the brain to resume nominal GABA/glutamate agonism after ethanol-induced downregulation. Some people are much faster than others.
Alcohol promises a great time. Alcohol delivers a hangover and regrets.
Junk food promises a great time. Junk food delivers poor health and regrets.
Going to the gym promises hardship and struggle. It delivers health. I've never once regretted it.
Reading a book promises struggling and boredom. It delivers wisdom and inspiration. I've never once regretted it.
If you compare what you think you will happen with what you know will happen from experience, it's very easy to see how often you are misjudging these things.