I assumed that Macs were mostly preferred because of their UX and relatively high-quality drivers/OS working well with sleep/wake. But if you put linux on there, you're giving all that up
Are there not any linux laptops out there with decent build quality and comparable perf/battery life?
Aside from the processor, there really isn't anything particularly compelling to me about the hardware. Apple's forte is how they integrate the whole hardware package with good software. The build quality is better than most but not especially great. That's not really saying much when you consider the low quality of so many others out there. The keyboards are terrible and I had serious reliability issues with the last couple Macs I used. The battery life probably comes as much from the OS as it does from the hardware. Support is generally acceptable if you pay for AppleCare, although you can sometimes end up waiting a couple weeks for certain repairs.
The Asahi team is doing great work, but I can't help but feel like Linux will always be a second class citizen on Apple hardware. I understand it still appeals to some people. It's not for me, though.
I'm using a ThinkPad now. It's ok. It's well supported in Linux and Lenovo still provides good support. I think the plan I paid for includes next day repairs. I like that it actually has a variety of ports unlike some of the others that cheap out. It's more repairable than most laptops out there. I will probably get a Framework next time or maybe System76. If I was into MacOS, I'd get a MacBook without a doubt, but I just don't like the OS very much anymore.
> Aside from the processor, there really isn't anything particularly compelling to me about the hardware
The trackpad. I've tried a dozen laptops. Thinkpads work great for linux support, as do Dell XPS 13's and the X1 Carbons. But the trackpads on all those pale in comparison to the accuracy of an Apple Trackpad. It's accurate, precise, I can select text anywhere easily, double click works reliably and consistently, and the mouse feels like it is directed exactly where I want.
There are some good suggestions for improvement in the comments, but the fact remains it is always more frustrating to use a trackpad on a non-apple device.
Have the state of trackpads changed in the last 6 months for other laptop vendors? If so I'll seriously consider switching but in my experience, even on Windows, those other laptops don't even come close to what Apple offers.
Other sources about the linux trackpad problems, I've not tried these changes but allegedly they're supposed to come close to what Apple offers:
> And then the rest of the hardware is—if not remarkable—very solid, so the computer is an enticing package.
A bit offtopic, but I've been a bit annoyed lately that we have to treat the computer as a package. Why should my choice of keyboard (Brazilian ABNT2) and trackpad (I want three physical buttons) restrict my choices of CPU or screen?
Has this ever not been the case for small form factor laptops? I think it's mostly just a practical reality of manufacturing. Although I have been really impressed with what Framework is doing!
As a long time Mac user, I had long been used to people saying things along the lines of “I tolerate their hardware to use macOS” especially re: the terrible laptop designs.
Now with the release of the AS machines, I hear the exact opposite sentiment very frequently, especially on techie sites. It’s certainly been an interesting reversal. I for one like both macOS and the AS hardware, and (minus the somewhat higher bugginess with recent releases) couldn’t be happier about the state of Macs.
> of their UX and relatively high-quality drivers/OS working well with sleep/wake.
The hardware integration UX is the good part of Macs. The UI UX is inferior to Linux IMO. I'm not referring to any one DE in particular, just the fact that they are so customizable. I wish I could have Windowmaker again on hardware as rock solid as my MBP (and all the integration bits solved, i.e. audio, wi-fi, plug-n-play, multiple monitors, etc.).
My lamentation goes well beyond Apple's business practices and I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I am hoping Framework + AMD might get close sometime in the next couple of years.
No one else makes a laptop that has the power / thermal / battery / weight spec combination that Apple does, and none of them are ARM laptops, either.
To exceed the Apple M1 / M2 specs with anyone else’s hardware, you need to give up on other specs that matter greatly to those of us who care about things like that.
Oh. I forgot that power/thermal/weight is the only spec that matters.
The point is that not everyone cares as much about perf/watt and there are plenty of comparable computers which surpass Apple laptops in different areas.
Amongst other issues with this sort of nonsense benchmark:
1. Does not indicate the amount of power used during the compilation (again, no one has equivalent performance / watt as the Apple Silicon chips).
2. Does not report the speed of the disks involved.
3. Does not report the amount, type, and speed of the RAM involved.
4. Does not report anything about the compilation environment (cross-compiling, running in an x86 VM, running in any VM, etc.)
Are there faster computers than Apple Silicon computers? Yup. Are there faster computers that have the same power and thermal specs? It’s possible, but I have yet to see a single benchmark that reports anything close which is available to most people.
It’s not just laptops, BTW. Amazon Graviton 2 machines run in server farms that consume less power and are cooler than their x86 equivalents.
What prejudice? They are unmatched (AFAIK) in perf/watt. The original post that I replied to stated that there are no "acceptable or comparable" hardware. I think that's subjective but false. Comparable doesn't mean exactly the same. Similar is good enough. I take acceptable to mean usable. There are plenty of other usable machines.
Anything that has less battery life at comparable capability is neither similar nor acceptable to me. Anything that looks like it’s going to cook my nethers as I use it on my lap is neither similar nor acceptable to me.
Absolutely no PC manufacturer matches the build quality, battery life, weight, thermal management, power consumption, and performance capability that the current round of Apple laptops provide. From my perspective, that means that there’s nothing acceptable or comparable.
In the year or so that I’ve had this Mac, I’ve heard the fan spin up a total of three times, and while I’m not doing heavy compiles often, there’s no other computer that I’ve owned with active cooling that is as quiet as this has been (using its passive cooling for all but those three times, all caused by runaway processes triggered by the problem in the chair).
Please recommend one (or more)! I want to buy a new laptop for years. Last time I got so fed up with the available ones I just bought two second hand laptops for cheap. A small XPS and a big Lenovo (as a backup and for compile heavy development work).
Dell XPS 13 with an UHD screen is the closest you can get.
Again, the problem is that the hardware and the software are not optimized to work well with each other as much as Mac hardware and MacOS. Dell's fingerprint sensors do not work on Linux due to undocumented specs, and sleep/suspend doesn't work (the laptop will overheat in your backpack)
This was the typical post on Slashdot in 2005, but one would hope to notice you can’t judge a computer by “specs” anymore, especially not one that runs on battery power. The different specs fight each other; you can’t just increase them all.
