> There's so much DEMAND for friends, that people will gobble up your supply if you offer it (so long as you're not a total monster)
This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years. Back then, you are constantly meeting new people, and seeing them regularly in class and on campus. People that age don't have a "max occupancy" number when it comes to making friends. As an adult in the working world, the opposite is true.
Outside of that uni environment, a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again. Most people cannot make a first impression that good.
Outside of school/uni, people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers. Friendship groups begin to quickly narrow around this time as well, as people get married, go to professional schooling of some kind, and start hanging out mostly with people that are very similar to them.
I can't say that you're wrong, because everyone's environment/experience is different.
But this is so outside my perception of the world and that of everyone I've ever spoken to (across a swatch of demographics across North America and Europe).
Friendship groups narrow because it isn't EASY anymore (you're not all on campus).
Nobody actually desires for them to narrow.
If you can make it *easy* for the other person (by handling the approach, scheduling, etc). They'll be as willing as in uni days
>If you can make it easy* for the other person (by handling the approach, scheduling, etc). They'll be as willing as in uni days*
That's definitely not true, or at least not my experience. Everyone I ask out to join me for various activities, has an excuse, usually busy or other plans with someone else, and they never follow up for a rain check.
People over 30, even single/child-free, seem to be very busy with their established routines, hobbies, and narrow circle of long term friends, that they just aren't open to new people anymore or at least making time for them, no matter how cool or sociable you are.
Seems like time is the main cuprit, or lack thereof. If you already have things to do and enough friends that occupy all your free time, or barley have enough time to meet the friends you already have, then when are you gonna meet new people?
Making friends is a two way street. You could be the coolest, funniest, most sociable guy ever, but if everyone you meet already had enough friends or feels they don't need you in their life then ....
The only shot to make this easy for you is meeting other loners.
In my experience, and everyone's is different, the key is to find a common activity/interest. I do consulting work, so I often change teams and walk in knowing no one. I've been complimented multiple times about noticeably increasing team cohesion. You know what I do? I start regular/consistent activities with the team. "Tuesday is my go out to lunch day, everyone is invited." I mean I literally just stand up in the middle of work and say that loud enough for surrounding people to hear. Sometimes I go alone, especially at first. But eventually people trickle in and then it doesn't take long before a group of 4-5 people are going to lunch every Tuesday. You can similarly start a regular happy hour if one is not already going on. People join who aren't even on my team, because they heard me invite everyone.
Outside of work, the path is to join a hobby. Find a softball league or something like that. This has built in consistent interaction and fosters expansion into happy hours after the games or other activities.
If there's anyone in your circle of acquaintances that has a birthday, tell them you'd really like to buy them a beer to celebrate their birthday. Ask open ended, "Hey, is there a day this week you're free? I owe you a birthday beer." Most adults no longer get real celebrations for their birthdays and will appreciate it if there's not some other social hurdle (actually busy, afraid you are trying to date them, etc). Some of those social hurdles (like afraid it's a date) can be overcome by suggesting it's a group thing. To use the work example again, "Hey team, it's Susan's birthday this week. I think it would be cool if we took her to lunch or something. Anyone else in?"
To put context on this, I am introverted and autistic (very low social needs). I do these behaviors explicitly for outcome oriented purposes (bring people joy, grow career).
In my experience both of you are right. There are many people who are very "desperate" for friendships, especially if they have not lived in the same place for 20+ years. On the other hand there are a bunch of people who are so much in their routines they are not open to do anything out of the ordinary. The ironic thing is that even those are often desperate for friends, they just struggle to break their routines (something you definitely must do to make friends IMO).
Which leads me to a point that is missing in the post, if you want to get to know new people, be open to new things. Just say yes if somebody asks you to go to the arcade, if you really can't but want to do something, follow up on the rain check.
>There are many people who are very "desperate" for friendships
Being desperate for friendships, in my experience, usually has the opposite effect of making people avoid you even more. Especially if you're over 30. People seem to be wired to think that "if you're a grown adult and have no friends by now, then it's probably because there's something wrong with you, and is risky for me to be the first one to take a leap of faith in you if nobody has done it so far". Usually people who already have many friends easily attract more, as it signals you're already a sociable and valuable "tribe member". Same with romantic relationships.
>Just say yes if somebody asks you to go to the arcade
That assumes there are people who ask you. If nobody asks you, then what? In my experience after I moved abroad, almost nobody asked me anywhere despite me learning the local language, making efforts to socialize, strike up conversations and exchange phone numbers. Even when I was the one initiating asking people to go places rarely end in a positive response. I think it's a cultural thing. The country I live now, people are very cold, distanced and keep to themselves, and meeting and engaging people you don't know very well is not really something wildly accepted.
Perhaps you can consider moving to a country other than the UK?
Just kidding, I've met plenty of wonderful and sociable UK people, and the joke could work (or not work, depending on what you make of my lousy humour) on almost any country.
Edit: seeing your other comment about "German speaking parts of Europe", my next guess to use in a joke would be Germany, but similarly, I've met a ton of very sociable Germans.
>or i'm at coffee shop now, want to stop by and catch up. this is how you can turn casual associates into friends.
This is not my experience at all in my new host country. I tried this a lot and never got anyone to join. People here seem to have their schedule pre-planned, and expect you to schedule meetups in advance if you want them to join you. Sending texts like "I'm having a coffee in town, join me if you want" to people I just met always left me alone, with replies coming after 2+ hours or the next day like "sorry, I was busy/got other plans/saw your text too late".
It's how I spent my 30th birthday alone. I texted a bunch of people 10h in advance if they want join me later that Friday/Saturday night for birthday drinks and maybe going out dancing later. Out of about 12 people, nobody came. :(
It's a cultural issue I think in the German speaking part of Europe. Brazilians told me spontaneous meetings with people are completely normal there, but here people don't spontaneously join invites from people they aren't very close with and expect you to schedule these well in advance.
As a Brazilian living in a Nordic country and working in a different Nordic country, I can corroborate that the expectation from the locals here is that everything in planned in advance (with plenty of notice: 1 week or more); I can also corroborate that Brazilians in general do things spontaneously.
No disrespect, but I’m guessing you’re not married with kids. That phase is very busy and focused and people have dramatically less time compared to uni days.
> This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years
I'll happily state the contrary:
Supply easily saturates demand at the university but after that most are on their own. So, demand stays the same but supply drops off (because you have much less available time).
So this is where you can shine.
> knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again
No, I talk to people while waiting for the train or during my commute. I don't ask them to see them again, I just see them again because they have the same commute as me.
Always say hi but never give them the feeling that you expect them to spend time talking with you. This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train, it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride.
From there on it's easier, you slowly get to know a handful of acquaintances and you can easily "escalate" with the people you like.
> This is also why it's easier to talk while waiting for the train,
> it's a limited time and they feel easier knowing that you won't
> be potentially annoying them during the whole train ride.
Wait, how does that work? If you're waiting at the same stop, you'll board the same train, right? Unless they wait for the next one to avoid you? Wouldn't they be concerned that you'll board together and continue making conversation for the entire commute?
The bus arriving is a natural break point for ending the conversation, I'd say. There's no social obligation to keep talking once you are both are busy boarding the bus and finding a seat, so it's a good time to say farewell.
> a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again
I’ve had serendipitous conversations which were just fun. Nothing knocking my socks off. Just good conversation; we share numbers and I try to remember when we’re in the same area again.
> people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers
Couldn’t disagree more. Not everyone wants to chat all the time. But I’ve had loads of interesting conversations with strangers at bars and restaurants, coffee shop lines, airport terminals, sports-gear shops and of course holiday destinations.
This is a big part of my "So hard it's easy" philosophy.
Most people are so bad at conversation (waiting patiently for their turn to tell a completely unrelated anecdote), that just being able to have an organic chat is pretty "knock your socks off behavior"
You’re right but you’re also wrong. I know of social circles in middle age that have largely locked down. People have their routines and responsibilities and loved ones, and that’s that. They make little effort to clear space for new relationships. I also know other circles, also middle aged, where people have made it a priority to not do that. There is still flux and change in these circles.
Its a choice, basically. Not an easy one and there is no right or wrong here, but it’s not inevitable that midlife is characterised by social lockdown.
Location matters. In Silicon Valley, many people you meet are not locals, they come and they go. Like the tide. Other places this is different, like small towns where everyone knows everyone else. Some places people are more defensive, less friendly. Being an extrovert in a city where everyone is a visitor doesn’t help form lasting friendships and a faux pas in a small town can become a scarlet letter that follows you forever.
As others have noted, age matters. That’s well documented in the research from what I can tell but it’s also just a simple consequence of having marriages, raising children, etc… Coincidently that’s another set of life outcomes that are very impacted by place. Silicon Valley is known for that. “Man Jose” is not a great place to start a family, and career driven men from widely diverse ethnic and socio-cultural groups don’t form much of a community.
"Man Jose" is characterized by endless sprawl of modest single-family housing and is full of ethnic communities (South Asian, Chinese, Vietnamese) and families raising young children. It has more small neighborhood churches than almost anywhere else I have lived. Describing San Jose as a land of antisocial young men strikes me as frankly bizarre.
by that metric, most people's lives are nothing but failure. Everybody has a human need for companionship and to feel like they belong. That's hard to accomplish when juxtaposed against an economic system pushes people to work first and live second.
BTW Bezos is about as poor an example as you could pick. He absolutely has more free time than I do, unless by some miracle he cooks, cleans and drives himself everywhere. "Free time" here means he can choose the exact parameters of how to spend his day and not worry about paying the mortgage or tuition ̶o̶r̶ ̶r̶i̶s̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶r̶i̶a̶g̶e̶.
2. you just demonstrated that even Bezos is definitely not free from obligations and time commitments, such as his marriage, running a huge company, etc. The fact that he can afford to do anything in the world money-wise does not relieve even him from having to make "free time" to spend on family or else it will fail, etc. So, totally a matter of priorities.
Maybe. I happened to be in Thailand right now hanging out with expats. It's not really my cup of tea, but many of them hang out at the beach all day every day for months and even years, and pay next to nothing. They have no personal shoppers or money concerns, and infinite amounts of "free time". I couldn't live like that and I choose to invest such "free time" into work (currently) and I'm fine with that. But if you want to optimize specifically for free time, this is certainly doable without being Bezos, some people here worked washing dishes in the US.
It sounds like a paradox that there would be simultaneous epidemics of loneliness and and standoffishness but they cause each other. In one direction the cause is obvious, in the other lack of socialization causes people's "calibration" to go off as their learned tolerance to unexpected things fades. Real social interactions involve a lot of imperfection and what you sometimes see is that without being desensitized, lonely people's standards can be unreachable. (Other commenters have alluded to this being a result of hyper stimulation on TikTok but it predates it.)
Yes, because adults in general have less time to spend with friends than someone who's younger, more mobile (live downtown vs the suburbs) and has fewer responsibilities.
But loneliness is up among all generations, including those who are in the right time and right place (post-secondary). Many reasons for this as well, including the impact of internet and social media. People are less willing to give others a chance because Tinder/Tiktok/IG has trained them to think that another more interesting experience could be right around the corner.
Do you mind sharing your nationality? This rings true of the opinions of many people I know in Europe but I would be very surprised if any Americans felt this way. Genuinely curious.
I don't know, I have made friends well into my adult life, including after having kids. Granted it is not in the same frequency as in the uni days but still during the years I have found some. Mostly people I have bumped into at work but were not directly above or below me or via other friends who introduced me to their friends. I am not an extrovert or too introvert and I don't know why it seems like everyone here must declare themselves as if they are in the extreme of this bell curve, probably they are somewhere in the middle, like the rest of us.
I think this is highly dependent on luck. If you're friendly and happen to live near other, outgoing, friendly families, then the odds of befriending them are higher. It also helps to have a friendly spouse (it helps a LOT).
I met someone at Strangeloop because they were a doppelganger of an acquaintance from some years previously. I now realize that I had this attitude like we already friends because of that unrealized similarity. Attitude and any alignment in interests is more than enough, or alphabetical. :)
There was a girl who I couldn't stand in high school... but we bumped into each other in a train station on the opposite side of the country... and hung out all afternoon.
Just being from the same small town made an immediate (but brief) connection
I had the same experience in 6th grade with a friend who moved to Michigan from Iowa. Last names "M" and "O" put us next to each other in class and the rest is history I suppose.
It feels corny to say, but you really can't make old friends.
This really doesn't ring true outside of school/university years. Back then, you are constantly meeting new people, and seeing them regularly in class and on campus. People that age don't have a "max occupancy" number when it comes to making friends. As an adult in the working world, the opposite is true.
Outside of that uni environment, a new person is going to have to knock your socks off with their personality, for you to even consider meeting up with them again. Most people cannot make a first impression that good.
Outside of school/uni, people are busy with daily life, and far less likely to chat with strangers. Friendship groups begin to quickly narrow around this time as well, as people get married, go to professional schooling of some kind, and start hanging out mostly with people that are very similar to them.