However, they do have another cookie cutter website selling that "development opportunity" https://tokenized-properties.com/ and repeating the $1.25m price tag
According to the title (and corroborated by the entry on mattereum) the only land in it is the one I marked in red https://imgur.com/a/5h6c8Zi — it's literally a cliff, plus the title talks about right of way on the paths marked there for the next twenty years, so it's impossible to build on
This right here just perfectly encapsulates everything wrong with the crypto industry, I'm very disappointed to see Vinay openly defending this sham
1) the £7000 payment was a transaction fee on the transfer of the land.
2) we have an independent valuation on file for the land at >1M. I wanted to reconfirm this with a member of my team before replying with specifics here, which you read as “he’s being evasive.” I was waiting for data.
The full documentation stack for the land is in the Asset Passport linked from the OpenSea listing.
If you want access to the documents email me and I’ll see about getting you an NDA and putting you in touch with the seller - they may or may not choose to satisfy your curiosity.
You're replying to a different person, I'm not phphphphp and I didn't call you evasive.
Reading through a sibling subthread with phphphphp, I just can't understand how you can tell that with a straight face. What "complex deal"? What "transaction fee"? The title literally says "last sold for", so unless you're saying the transaction involved elaborate tax evasion designed to hide the real price that's what it was sold for.
Then there is the other party in this $1m+ transaction that's supposed to be serious. Someone called Idris Anjary, whose only claim to fame on internet is a bunch of press releases for this deal, before that they're just a normal self employed person helping people get planning permissions for minor renovations [1] and building sheds [2] while operating from an office over an off licence [3]. All their companies together never saw more than one hundredth of the money you're saying that deal is worth.
Come on, let's be serious for a second. Either it's a sham, or the actual purchase and the person and the company doing it are just fronts, which is not exactly confidence inspiring.
Edit: btw, your environmental survey is off, the mini map on page 3 makes it clear the report is about the larger plot of land, not the part of it included in the sale. The Southern Water report is very likely wrong too, it says there's a public sewer there but the only connection on the map is from the larger plot.
The land registry does not list "transaction fees" and neither do auction houses. If the land was indeed purchased for a large amount of money, the buyer (who is now the seller) would need to have purchased it... either in cash, or with a mortgage. There's no mortgages outstanding for the company (per companies house) and the company has no money.
I'll be charitable and assume you're just a fool: you've been played by your property agency partners, and the "member of your team" is of course, I'm sure, the person who provided the valuation from their "independent" valuer (because they're the property expert after all).
You can go on rightmove or an auction website right now and see comparable land available for <£100k. The basis of your defence was that of course the land is worth a lot because land in the UK is worth a lot but that's just not true, the only place where parking spaces sell for more than £7,000 is in London: in 75%+ of the country, you could buy 1 acre of land for £7,000.
The value of unused land for sale is a function of the amount of realisable value, for example, if there is a piece of land with planning permission for a 5 bedroom house in an area where a 5 bedroom house sells for £1,000,000, the price of the land would be something like £1m - (cost of building a house) - (some adjustment for the risk borne by the builder which becomes their profit), e.g: £500k.
If your 1.72 acres of beach front land is worth close to £2,000,000 that would mean there is much more than £2,000,000 realisable value for an owner of the land. Please, think through how you could conceivably realise millions of pounds of value from a piece of land that you are unable to build on.
Land in the UK is plentiful, the reason that a small proportion of land here is expensive is because only a small proportion of land is suitable for development and has permission for development. You could buy acres and acres of land anywhere in the UK for the price of 1 months rent in London... because the land is undevelopable, because you'll never get permission to develop.
The idea that an acre of beachfront is worth millions, when it has much less than a million worth of realisable value, is absurd. You're a business man, write a business case for this land.
If £7,000 was a "transaction fee" then is this other auction, with a listed sold price of £130,750, a transaction fee of £130k for this piece of land? And if so, is this land worth (130,750 / 7000) * 1,900,000 = £35 million?
Eh. I’m sorry, I know you feel like you’ve got relevant expertise here and you’re doing some kind of public service here fighting with those evil blockchain people.
But you’re out of your depth and making very week assertions to cover the gaps in your data.
If you want to NDA and talk directly to the sellers of the land about the commercials of the deal, that can probably be arranged. But your speculation is based on weak data not access to the facts, and is not really going to replace things like an independent valuation and the opinions of the experienced real estate lawyers who papered this deal.
Yes, it’s a novel way to buy land, but the underlying deal mechanics are pretty conservative. There is nothing up anybody’s sleeves, and we encourage full diligence from any prospective buyers - they’re going to need to bring their own legal counsel to assess the purchase mechanisms and the NFT binding arrangements anyway.
This is not some deal to retail: we expect the sale to be to a real estate developer.
I don’t think there’s anything else I can do to convince you of your error.
Also this “close to the sea front” land you have posted appears to be “close to the sea front” in the sense of “being in the middle of a housing estate somewhere near the sea” not an actual beach.
And that’s valued at 130,000?
I’m just sayin’ 7000 does not buy very much land in the UK. Not anywhere.
Oh, so you acknowledge that the listed price of £130,000 is the value? Thank you, so by extension you acknowledge that £7,000 was the sale price of the piece of beach.
I'd also suggest you re-read my comment: land has value when it has planning permission. The £130,000 piece of land is valuable because it has planning permission that would allow a developer to sell a house for ~>£250k on it. The size and location of land is immaterial to the value of land unless the size and location increase the amount of money that can be extracted from the land -- typically through development. The entire point of my comment is that the desirability of land is not based on how cute it is (a slice of beach) but rather what it can be used for (even if it's in the middle of a housing estate).
I'll stop commenting now because I'm just beating a dead horse (...or donkey, I guess your land could be used to offer beach front donkey rides, so that's something...). I wish you luck, it's clear you've been taken advantage of and that's unfortunate: if you come to your senses, there's lots of land all over the UK that is actually valuable, and once you cut off your current partners and partner with some legitimate property industry people instead, I am sure you can make a much better go of NFT property sales :) Good luck!
As noted the 7000 was a transaction fee. The land was part of a more complex deal.
As for the rest of this: land gets planning permission when plans are presented - which is what property developers do for a living.
I would not expect somebody to plank down >1m on an asset they had no idea how to utilise: the expectation is the land will sell to a developer who is ready to go through that process.
Nobody is going to buy it for >£1m because it's worthless. That's the point. Although at this point I am not sure what your story is, if I understand it correctly, you're saying West London Lets bought it for >£1m with no idea what to do with it...? Except they didn't, are you finally going to give up that charade given that you can see the purchase price on your own website? Here, read this: https://passport.mattereum.com/West.London.Lets.01/01_Identi...
"Title absolute
1 (28.02.2022) PROPRIETOR: WEST LONDON CITY LETS LIMITED (Co. Regn. No. 09214284) of 68 High Worple, Harrow HA2 9SZ.
2 (28.02.2022) The price stated to have been paid on 20 October 2021 was £7,000.
3 (28.02.2022) The Transfer to the proprietor contains a covenant to observe and perform the covenants contained within the registers of the..."
If you're going to lie, at least make sure your own website doesn't betray you :) Or, going back to the original point about stamp duty, the alternative is that your partners engaged in fraudulent reporting to evade stamp duty and your comments here are exposing them.
Oh my god, looking at one of your reports [1] I just realised what could have happened
Please tell me you didn't get a valuation for the whole plot HP123436 instead of the sliver that is actually in that title and is described on the page! Because while the text on the page says HP123436 and the reports were ordered for it, you are not selling the whole patch, you're selling a tiny piece of it, otherwise you'd include a bunch of other properties like [2] that are indeed worth way more
Edit: or maybe that's by design, the "complex deal" you are talking about actually does include those other properties, and the matterium page is designed to make a sale of a much larger property look like a sale of a £7k property to avoid SDLT and a bunch of other complications, while going through a shell company that clearly doesn't have nearly enough money for the whole thing. Surely you aren't doing that?
That’s a great catch! That would also explain the “…part of a larger deal…”: the larger property (homegrange house: https://housingcare.org/housing-care/facility-info-18883-hom...) was up for sale and is a care home owned by the same seller (McCarthy) that sold the little bit of beach to West London Lets, so I think, if we are to believe that leashless is just mistaken, your theory holds up.
I can’t reconcile how it never twigged for him that a little bit of beach would be worth so much money and how he is so committed to the belief in the face of so much evidence, but I guess there’s some time required to swallow this big of a mistake — hopefully he’ll get an apology from West London Lets, and maybe do some due diligence in future…
A complex transaction that took place through a single public listing at an auction house. That’s exactly how complex property deals happen.
Unfortunately, you’ve said I would have to sign an NDA to get more info from the seller which would make the whole exercise pointless. I will make an alternate offer: I will pay £10,000 to the charity of your choice if you show documentation that proves the land has been independently valued at more than £1m (by someone accredited) and that the land was purchased for more than the amount shown on the land registry.
I am sure, in the cold light of day, tomorrow, you’ll realise you’ve been had and you’ll have to have an awkward conversation with West London Lets where they reveal that actually it was purchased for £7k and actually they’ve valued it at £1.9m based on the assumption it can get planning permission and then you quietly remove all the posts about it from your website and pretend this never happened. I won’t hold it against you, but do implore you to reconsider your approach to who you work with. With partners like West London Lets, who needs competitors?
If you want to proceed down this path, I'd be very happy to take your ten grand offer to charity.
I have a valuation report, and I have details of the prior transaction.
I'm 100% sure that you have no intention of actually parting with your ten grand, but allow me to repeat myself here: actual real estate lawyers put this thing together, the land has a solid set of documentation including a valuation, and you're just trolling because you don't like blockchains and want to pretend you have expertise that you plainly do not.
So if you actually want to put ten grand into a charity, feel free to email me and we can arrange the details. We'll do a nice press release about your generous gesture and everything!
We're a serious team: mostly middle aged, mostly backgrounds doing pretty serious life-or-death work for the State. My MD worked on TB and HIV epidemiology in prisons preventing spread in prisons and to the community. I was a disaster planner working on worst case scenarios at the Pentagon and for a UK military think tank headed by a former UK Minister of Defense. Our CCO was commercial director of the UK home office for many years. Not a bunch of hicks, and not some fly-by-night operation.
Seriously people who do serious work.
Do email us about that ten grand. I think there are a couple of groups we would like to make a large donation to this Christmas.
Appreciate your engagement, but we do have the documents, and your plain desire for us to be amateurs and idiots is your problem, not mine.
Are we taking your money, or are you slinking back into a hole?
2. You will present an independent valuation from a member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors showing a value of >=£1m for the same piece of land (1.72 acres) where "independent" means they're not a related party (e.g: a valuation produced by West London Lets is not acceptable)
2a. If I have concerns about the independence of the source of the valuation, I can, at my cost, instruct a member of RICS from the local area to value the land
3. You share "...details of the prior transaction..." which includes an explanation of the £7k "transaction fee" which demonstrates that the land in question was not purchased for £7k through the auction
4. I will not sign an NDA, I will return to this thread to either confirm I was wrong and correct myself, or confirm I was correct, the outcome must be shared
5. You donate £10k to my charity of choice if you're unable to satisfy the above conditions (A local homeless charity, The Crossings, charity number 1175115)
ironic that he's the one slinking back into his hole, I guess projection really is the fraudsters greatest weakness. What's most interesting to me is that after the conversation in this thread, I did some further research on Vinay, and even his (pretty weak) credentials are, unsurprisingly, overinflated. He seems to be smart enough to massage his credentials for the audience (e.g: in more sophisticated places, he proclaims he was involved in the launch of Ethereum (twitter, his website), but in less sophisticated places, he proclaims he was part of the team that created Ethereum itself). He's a self promoter, a clinger on, a man who lacks any substance, fits right in within the cryptocurrency space. I assume he'll read this comment and be conflicted: does he respond with more insults but completely ignore the fact that he has chosen to ignore the opportunity to prove what he has said to be true? Does he use my disrespect here as an excuse to no longer engage? I'm excited to see his strategy.
If they indeed ordered a valuation for the whole plot as they did with the environmental assessment, it explains both the "£1M+ independent valuation", the £7k sale, and what the actual piece of land is.
They have an empty cookie cutter website https://westlondoncitylets.co.uk/our-work.html and its owner has an empty linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/idris-anjary-24000b171/
The same guy owns Tokenized Properties Ltd which is an empty husk of a company https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/o... and shares its address with West London City Lets Ltd
However, they do have another cookie cutter website selling that "development opportunity" https://tokenized-properties.com/ and repeating the $1.25m price tag
According to the title (and corroborated by the entry on mattereum) the only land in it is the one I marked in red https://imgur.com/a/5h6c8Zi — it's literally a cliff, plus the title talks about right of way on the paths marked there for the next twenty years, so it's impossible to build on
This right here just perfectly encapsulates everything wrong with the crypto industry, I'm very disappointed to see Vinay openly defending this sham