If the information in the comment directly relates to the code and is for developers then putting it next to the code makes a lot of sense. Putting it somewhere else just increases the likelihood it will go stale and decreases discoverability of the information.

Code is very formal and limited in what it can express. The real world tends to be much more chaotic. It is impossible by definition to express some reasons just in code, that's why comments are sometimes necessary.

> if it's a "why" doc, it shouldn't be specific to the code

Sometimes the "why" is directly connected to that specific part of the code and doesn't concern anything else, or anyone not working on that part of the code. Separating & moving the explanation to another place just makes it less visible exactly where it matters.

If the explanation is directly connected to specific parts of the code, it's not "why", it's "how". "Why" will be true regardless of implementation, "how" won't be.

Comments should be less visible, as they distract the coder from understanding what the code actually does with potential lies about what the code ought to do, according to the flawed human who wrote the code.

Put the comments elsewhere. We don't put all our code in one file to solve "it needs to be visible!" problems, we shouldn't do it with our docs either, it is not consistent nor is it helpful.

> We don't put all our code in one file to solve "it needs to be visible!" problems, we shouldn't do it with our docs either

You make comparisons without considering the reasons. We split code up into multiple files because we cannot have 100% of the code on screen either way and huge files tend to be cumbersome. Whole IDE components are built just to show API docs and other parts of the code exactly where and when we need them. With that in mind it makes no sense to have important comments not be visible where and when we need them.

And even if those comments were in a separate file like you suggest you'd still need a comment in the code to make developers aware of the fact an important explanation of some obscure detail exists. If you don't then any change of that code might invalidate the documentation without anyone knowing, and then you're back at square one with lying comments/docs. Comment visibility also means it's visible when it needs to be updated.

I think you’re trapped in this “comments must exist” mindset that’s simply not true or necessary. Every single thing you like about comments can be accomplished with self documenting code and accompanying “why” docs.

There’s simply no need for inline comments anymore, and continuing to use them is admitting you’re not putting the kind of effort you’re capable of into building software.

Not sure why this was flagged...

> Every single thing you like about comments can be accomplished with self documenting code and accompanying “why” docs.

Except being exactly where and when it's needed, with any modern editor being able to hide it for people who don't want it.

You seem to base everything on the assumption that comments are always the worst choice, and that people don't behave like people but always document things the right way no matter how cumbersome or complex that is compared to the obvious way. Seeing things in black and white is usually not the best solution.

> continuing to use them is admitting you’re not putting the kind of effort you’re capable of into building software.

No, and I hope that kind of thinking won't mislead you into believing you are at your peak because you don't write comments.

How can I hide comments in VS Code?

And all I’ve said is comments are a last resort. Nothing black/white about that, just tired of egos getting in the way of seeing how there are a million ways in practice to avoid comments that people who “like” comments refuse to learn about.

You're treating comments like a pariah because they might be wrong (i.e. not accurately describe what the code is doing) but that's just as true for the code itself: it may not be doing what it is actually intended to do.

In fact, there may be cases where the comment is correct (i.e. it describes what the code should do) but the code is wrong and doesn't actually do it correctly. Why should the comments take a back seat in that case?

In reality, comments and code are part of the whole system. There's nothing wrong with being suspicious of a comment's accuracy, but that doesn't mean comments aren't helpful. Part of development is keeping code and comments in sync. Yes, programming is hard.

This is a bad take, as the code is actually executed, whereas comments are not.

As the code is, definitionally, the way the program works, it must be correct, necessarily. This is not true of the comments.

This is why comments are dangerous and bad, only to be used when you've run out of time and/or aren't smart enough to figure a problem out (happens to everyone).

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that because the code is how the program works, it is by definition correct. Wouldn't you define a bug as incorrect code?

In any case, even if the code is perfectly correct, comments can and should be used to describe why certain decisions were made, when they are not otherwise obvious from looking at the code. E.g. "You might think a bitfield would be more efficient for storing this data but we choose an array of long ints because in the near future we plan to update the code to pass this as an argument to foo() which assumes an array of long ints."

Comments are not limited to instances when you run out of time or are not smart enough to figure out a problem. The whole idea of comments is to save a future developer from the headache of figuring out the things you're writing comments about.

> Why must that documentation go inline with the code?

Discoverability and context would not be nearly as useful, to start. Why you need to ask the question, as if there is no suitable answer, is suspect of a thoughtless conclusion.

In the late 80s, there was an idea floated that every file could have a sister file with comments, such that they would not need to be parsed/discarded by a parser. This would aid in generating documentation, among other tooling. When I was starting out, I expected this to take hold, but it never did.

> There are so many better ways to document design and implementation decisions that don't involve embedding English into source code files

I don't think that's been demonstrated.

>In the late 80s, there was an idea floated that every file could have a sister file with comments, such that they would not need to be parsed/discarded by a parser. This would aid in generating documentation, among other tooling.

This sounds a lot like the director's commentary tracks on DVDs. No one ever watched those, and the sister-comment-file would flop the same way if anyone really tried it. A separate file is fine for documenting overall design, but for detailing sections of code, the commentary needs to be close to it, where people will see it.

> No one ever watched those, and the sister-comment-file would flop the same way if anyone really tried it

Not if it was integrated with an IDE such that you could expand it shrug

While I'm not a fan of excessive comments in code, I am a firm believer in keeping project documentation next to the project. I can't tell you how many places I've been where project documentation was spread across OneNote, Confluence, documents in SharePoint, etc, etc, etc. Any project I have this sort of control over will have the documentation for the project in the repo. I find having a git history of your documentation that can be viewed alongside the history for your code adds so much value to the documentation.

Absolutely. If you were to survey, I would fall much more closely on the "don't comment code" side of things. But if you have documentation for your project, keep it close to the project. That's all.

Imo you should do both. Comments + external doc.

You know, I find your point of view insane and crazy, but I’m willing to consider that some people really see code as a different language like let’s say Chinese and would find it crazy to mix english and chinese together. I don’t see any other explanation

It's probably worth examining why you think my PoV is "insane and crazy" as that's not a normal reaction.

Comments intermingled with code help me navigate as I'm trying to accomplish my task.

A simple comment every "paragraph" of code or so helps me narrow down the amount of code I need to mentally parse to get to the part that's actually relevant to what I'm trying to do.

So since we're supposed to be on the same team, explicitly saying "go fuck yourself, load a mental model of the entire codebase to find the part that's relevant to your task, I'm not going to help you" does indeed seem insane and crazy.

I feel like you're missing the entire point of abstraction. When you're looking at code, you should be able to understand what it does by way of how it's structured, and you shouldn't have to load the entire codebase in your brain to do that.

You see a function called, "getCustomer" you shouldn't have to dive into that function to understand what you're getting back. It's a customer, no need to figure out how it got the customer or what the format is, etc.

Whether or not you realize it, you've gotten to the point of arguing against a lot of really common and proven out design concepts (abstraction layers, orthogonality and the LoD, data types, etc.) without even realizing.

"How can I know how the program works without comments unless I load the entire thing into my brain all at once?" is not a question you ask if you understand these principles, because you know you won't need to.

Your argument is similar to the “I can write C because I don’t write bugs”

Howso?