I'm not an introverted misanthrope, I like to combine times of very deep work and reflection and social interaction. Office environments offer plenty of the latter, and very little of the former, so WFH suits a lot of us average people who love to do at least a part of deep intellectual work.
> mental health get's a problem because routine, excercise, experiencing new things and stimulation, and socializing are missing because everybody is staying at home
1. All kinds of mental health issues were shooting up before the pandemic
2. I see the exercise thing repeated by all proponents of working in offices. It completely befuddles me... I go to crossfit 4x a week and golf 3-4x a week, going to the office would only get in the way of this. There are no two ways about this: you have severe imagination, discipline, or motivation problems if the only thing making you move your ass is going to a physical office.
3. I don't know what kind of office you go to "experience new things", but I worked in a large video games company where the culture was dope and we'd play Mario Kart after lunch, and "new things" faded as quickly as anything else. I think this applies to pretty much any office setting.
4. I physically interact with people at crossfit and golf, with my family and friends, and with small business owners (ex: my coffee dude) every day... Again, if your idea of WFH is not talking to anyone for days on end, there may be a conceptualization problem here.
> you are replaceable, transactional human resource
You think the shareholders ever cared whether you go to the office, other than how it affects their EPS? I'll grant that being in an office could make a marginal difference in a round of layoffs if you're particularly ingratiated with some superiors thanks to regular physical interaction, but other than that, we were all just numbers well before WFH.
> I'm really worried about our ability to socialize here.
You should possibly have more faith in the agency of human beings.
> But fun fact: I have no feeling nor connection towards those remote employees.
I employ remote people in my business, from Colombia to Ukraine. I care about them. I empathize if they tell me they have a problem. I otherwise meet customers, potential partners, and all kinds of people through video chat every week. As with anything, the mileage varies: some people leave me indifferent, some people I really connect with, a few irk me.
But if you have no feelings whatsoever towards any people you work with remotely, I don't know what to tell you.
> Office environments offer plenty of the latter, and very little of the former
I would say if that's the case, you need to work on your office culture ;)
> 1. All kinds of mental health issues were shooting up before the pandemic
And the pandemic made it worse.
> 2. I see the exercise thing repeated by all proponents of working in offices
I meant activity. Steps in a day. Your way to the office. Walking around in the office.
> 3. I don't know what kind of office you go to "experience new things"
I was thinking of the commute. But yeah, you also get in touch with new stimulation as the office is a socialization hub. What stimulation do you have at home? Hackernews?
> if your idea of WFH is not talking to anyone for days on end, there may be a conceptualization problem here.
That's the danger I'm seeing here, yes. I don't know why you or almost everybody can't follow my thinking here, maybe bad phrasing (plus English is not my first language). I'm not talking about the people where this model fits. I'm not talking about people like you who can make it work. I'm talking about the rest. We all read the articles here on HN about rising loneliness, tech bro bubbles from people living at home 100%, ordering food, working out on their peleton etc. That's the persona I'm talking about.
> You think the shareholders ever cared whether you go to the office, other than how it affects their EPS?
I am a shareholder and I do care more about the people than any metric as long as the business is running. (Don't even get me started that there's enough evidence that treating your employees like humans and not like capital also could improve business metrics.)
> You should possibly have more faith in the agency of human beings.
I think you're missing the point here. If you really run a remote company you should know how hard it is. And if you're being honest with yourself, visiting the guys in Colombia or Ukraine would do much more for your relationship with them than anything digital. That's my experience as well, as I also have colleagues in Georgia, Ukraine and so on. And every time I visited them, took them out to a pub or whatever, they were happy and were raving about my visit for months after, because they felt appreciated. I got a better picture of who they are by eating with them in restaurants, driving around the city with them, drinking beers with them. It gave me a better feeling of who they really are. Nothing digital, in my experience, comes even close to that. And I think science is on my side here. There's so much more than seeing an image and hearing a voice to human interaction. Smell, hormones, stance etc.
> But if you have no feelings whatsoever towards any people you work with remotely, I don't know what to tell you.
Obviously I do. I shouldn't have phrased it so black and white.
In any case, good luck to you and hope your guys in UA are doing ok! I'm really looking forward to visit Ukraine as soon as possible!
I'm not an introverted misanthrope, I like to combine times of very deep work and reflection and social interaction. Office environments offer plenty of the latter, and very little of the former, so WFH suits a lot of us average people who love to do at least a part of deep intellectual work.
> mental health get's a problem because routine, excercise, experiencing new things and stimulation, and socializing are missing because everybody is staying at home
1. All kinds of mental health issues were shooting up before the pandemic
2. I see the exercise thing repeated by all proponents of working in offices. It completely befuddles me... I go to crossfit 4x a week and golf 3-4x a week, going to the office would only get in the way of this. There are no two ways about this: you have severe imagination, discipline, or motivation problems if the only thing making you move your ass is going to a physical office.
3. I don't know what kind of office you go to "experience new things", but I worked in a large video games company where the culture was dope and we'd play Mario Kart after lunch, and "new things" faded as quickly as anything else. I think this applies to pretty much any office setting.
4. I physically interact with people at crossfit and golf, with my family and friends, and with small business owners (ex: my coffee dude) every day... Again, if your idea of WFH is not talking to anyone for days on end, there may be a conceptualization problem here.
> you are replaceable, transactional human resource
You think the shareholders ever cared whether you go to the office, other than how it affects their EPS? I'll grant that being in an office could make a marginal difference in a round of layoffs if you're particularly ingratiated with some superiors thanks to regular physical interaction, but other than that, we were all just numbers well before WFH.
> I'm really worried about our ability to socialize here.
You should possibly have more faith in the agency of human beings.
> But fun fact: I have no feeling nor connection towards those remote employees.
I employ remote people in my business, from Colombia to Ukraine. I care about them. I empathize if they tell me they have a problem. I otherwise meet customers, potential partners, and all kinds of people through video chat every week. As with anything, the mileage varies: some people leave me indifferent, some people I really connect with, a few irk me.
But if you have no feelings whatsoever towards any people you work with remotely, I don't know what to tell you.