To be honest, I kinda feel AI porn is actually more ethical than the current porn industry. Much like written or drawn porn, it does not rely on the objectification of actual people. Instead it can fill a niche without hurting anyone.
There is the problem of it replacing real jobs, but this is not unique to the field.
The main problem, in my eyes, is AI porn that mimics real people. This is the main place I'd like to see some real restriction.
I agree with the core sentiment, but not the "without hurting anyone" part.
Porn addiction (and its consequences) has been the elephant in the room for a while.
Porn addiction while real is possibly overblown or under-discussed depending upon the social circles. Like anything human made it can be used for therapeutic purposes or abused depending upon both the intent and consumer base. I think we can all agree that higher quality human relationships should certainly take priority over any form of hedonism or escapism but it’s increasingly difficult for a looser society to find the conditions requisite for such essential relationships to develop organically. Moreover, we can potentially view addictions in general as more of a symptom than a cause of failed relationships and our increasingly tenuous social fabric.
Your use of the word “girls” implies that the subjects are under the age of legal consent which would classify what you’re talking about as child sex abuse material not porn. If you’re talking about porn you’re talking about people of legal age to consent. Making them women.
The difference between those two words is night and day. Legally, ethically and in terms of classification.
In this discussion your choice of words is very important.
Nudes and porn are very different things. Also the answer is yes, there are people who actually give a shit about who they marry / date / hire for work
I don't know what ,,should'' happen, there have been many firing because of sex work related reasons.
Also those background checks won't be the official reason these people won't get hired, it's always easy to create an alternative reason, just how it works with agism, sexism and racism.
Thanks for clarifying. When I read "actually give a shit" it suggests to me that the writer thinks those who aren't concerned have committed some moral failure.
Definitely, just like it's good for coal miners to be out of that awful line of work -- they seem really happy about it down in West Virginia.
While we're at it, we should free up software developers to no longer have to have jobs where their body is on the line, with high rates of scoliosis and carpal tunnel too.
Taking away someone's livelihood without readily having an alternative to immediately substitute is rarely something you're going to be thanked for. There are absolutely abusive porn studios, but there's also a good portion of cottage industry "amateur" porn that's popped up in recent years, where the only "boss" is a site taking their overhead cost for hosting and distribution.
Not that I take issue with the march of progress here. Just saying that someone will be better off without their job is a bit off.
There already are porn stars whose careers depend in them looking like celebrities. Long before AI, in the early days of the internet, there were “nudes” of Gillian Anderson/Dana Scully. You own your body, bur your face is not as unique as you think it is. https://nypost.com/2021/07/13/uncanny-taylor-swift-lookalike...
I feel like worrying about ethics is often a coping mechanism hard working men do to deal with the fact that they can easily be out-earned by a woman with very little skills.
> Instead it can fill a niche without hurting anyone
Controls and restrictions are good for people and thus society. We see benefits on limiting food intake, drugs, certain perversion (child, incest etc) and the inverse being no limits etc. associated with obesity, disease and mental health issues. IMO we shouldn't even coin the term "without hurting anyone" because of it's simplistic view of the world and society. AI porn will just feed peoples fetishes to no end and most likely compound the porn crisis further, which is already a public health issue.
This is the same argument used for a lot of things including drug addiction. It's a very easy phrase to throw without thinking of the wider consequences. People do not live in a bubble, we're social animals and another persons ills can have a detrimental effect on society.
I am addicted to (human) pornography and when I first heard about AI porn, I vowed to myself to never watch it, because I knew it would be like heroin on steroids to my brain.
Welp, curiosity got the better of me, and I gave in and decided to check it out, but not the anime type that the Techcrunch article seems to have as pixelated examples.
Instead, I ordered some photorealistic AI porn from an artist and it was... wow... the experience was overwhelming.
The girls were literal 10/10 perfections, you would never be able to find humans like that, even among world-class supermodels. They had these very pretty and also very characteristic faces, I have never seen anything like this in reality.
But that's not the scary part.
The scary part was that since this was custom-made by an artist just for me, it contained exactly my fetishes.
In real life, it would be much harder to find 10/10 models doing my fetishes (simply because there are not many 10/10s around, let alone doing porn, and there is a lot of fetishes).
In combination, it was a profound feeling of extasy, I have never experienced something like this before.
I am very worried tbh. Currently, it took a couple hundred dollars and a week to generate that porn, because the artist has to work with special models and do a lot of manual iterations, inpainting, etc, before it becomes even passable, and then even more iterations to make it almost flawless. But I think it's only a matter of time before this becomes automated.
And then I'll probably overdose and fry my brains out during a never ending binge on random-seed generated, precison-engineered, personalized dopamine bombs.
This is what terrifies me most about AI’s insane growth now. Not the risk of it destroying creative jobs. The risk of it giving us exactly what we want to always perfectly stimulate our brains and shortcut our pleasure pathways.
Smartphones in our hands is already putting boredom at risk of extinction. Where humanity will go when we can be exposed to unchallenging content that is precisely what we want 24/7, adapt to be different the moment we start getting slightly tired of current content, divorced from reality, and completely for free is something I can’t really imagine.
A lot of sci-fi deals with people living in VR worlds because they’re unable to cope with real life. Instead we’re on a path to virtual drug addiction but with no possibility of overdose or come down.
Consuming content does not really make me happy or feel good. It is stimulating and addictive, but as of now I am still motivated to see friends, do sports, work towards goals etc. even if I often get sidetracked by my online material.
If you think about addiction simplistically and mechanically, drugs will always be more capable of releasing dopamine than what our bodies are capable of naturally. It would make sense to me that there is a limit to how addictive content can get, when consumed in the usual ways.
This is also a (health) education problem, and at least in Finland problematic social media use has been linked with "moderate/low school achievement, low health literacy, and low parental monitoring"[1] (though if there is causality, it probably goes both ways for some of those).
For what it is worth, for me personally there is a limit after which I get twitchy and need to do some hard or uncomfortable in the physical world to feel good again.
"But I think it's only a matter of time before this becomes automated."
I think it will take a loong time, before it gets fully automated and deliver passable results, that are not 100% generic and repetive. But even if:
"And then I'll probably overdose and fry my brains out during a never ending binge on random-seed generated, precison-engineered, personalized dopamine bombs. "
Wouldn't it still simply get boring after a while and you stop watching porn?
> I am very worried tbh. Currently, it took a couple hundred dollars and a week to generate that porn, because the artist has to work with special models and do a lot of manual iterations, inpainting, etc, before it becomes even passable, and then even more iterations to make it almost flawless. But I think it's only a matter of time before this becomes automated.
> And then I'll probably overdose and fry my brains out during a never ending binge on random-seed generated, precison-engineered, personalized dopamine bombs.
MDMA is cheaper and overuse will literally fry your brain. I'd be more worried about that. Yanking it to AI porn is a self-limiting endeavor and I assume sitting around in the cold dampness of your shame you will eventually hit rock bottom and post-nut clarity.
If you are truly seeking for a way out you are one of the few people I would suggest hop a plane to a foreign country to frequent a red lights district as your problems go far deeper than just getting stuck on a hedonistic treadmill.
But yeah, teenagers and people who can't or are too afraid to leave the house will be more screwed up by this than regular porn.
Tbh this reads like a comment from somebody who never visited a red light district, not tried a lot of MDMA and neither saw top quality AI porn. If this is true, why do you think your recommendation holds any value?
I can totally feel the parent poster. This is not about sex per se, this is about absolute sexual beauty that is quite hard to find even in the top secret VIP escort salons, not even talking about the proletariat-style red light districts.
And MDMA has a pretty bad seratonin depletion hangover, if you tried to do it even for a couple days straight, this would be an obvious negative experience and the reason why people actually rarely overdose intentionally.
AI porn definitely has an opportunity to create a pretty bad cheap ecstasy cycle with no massive physical drawbacks and we are definitey heading there.
> If this is true, why do you think your recommendation holds any value?
Well, it isn't true, sorry to disappoint heh. My suggestion for him to go to a red lights district (preferably in another country) is for exposure therapy as he is afraid of human contact in all of its forms.
> This is not about sex per se, this is about absolute sexual beauty
No, it is not about "absolute sexual beauty" or whatever flowery language you want to dress it up in. Porn addiction is a real thing, but people with actual sex lives rarely fall down that rabbit hole.
"Top Quality AI Porn" does not have magical powers nor is it some sort of perfection or ideal, it is simply novel. Don't worry, you'll get used to that too with time.
> And MDMA has a pretty bad seratonin depletion hangover, if you tried to do it even for a couple days straight, this would be an obvious negative experience and the reason why people actually rarely overdose intentionally.
I said overuse, not overdose. Certainly don't do it for days on end but rather space it out by months.
If you are looking for "absolute sexual beauty", how about searching a partner that you love and care about instead of in "top secret VIP escort salons".
The future is not Orwell and his "a boot stamping on a human face— forever." It's AI expertly pushing our little human psychological/emotional buttons forever. The future is going to be FILLED with AI hyper-trained to persuade us with beautiful people made from these models to do whatever the heck people controlling that AI want.
Speaking of AI generated visual porn, I wonder why AI
Dungeon, Replika and Character.AI shut down all NSFW interactions in their text chat, even if you pay. Maybe ethical concerns?
I was on AI Dungeon in 2020 when they had a GPT-3 backend and no censorship. Holy Cow that was addictive! I bet a large percentage of the population could combine that with stable diffusion and live their whole lives in there!
> The future is not Orwell and his "a boot stamping on a human face— forever." It's AI expertly pushing our little human psychological/emotional buttons forever.
Bradbury explores (amongst other things) a constantly hedonistic society in Fahrenheit 451:
It's almost a central theme of "Brave New World." I've always wondered why 1984 gets so much credit for prescience when Brave New World and Vonnegut's "Player Piano" seem to have (from this vantage point) got our nail on the head a little better. If you haven't read "Player Piano" its about a future where, as all jobs have been automated, society is divided into engineers and non-engineers on the dole who are basically assigned busy work (either fake road crew, or fake soldier) so they can get money to buy the stuff the engineers are making.
The latter sounds something inspired by Keynes except he predicted a 15 hour work week but the books scenario insists on a 40 hour work week. If engineers work too much they can work less hours and give the remaining hours to another person so that there are more jobs.
If the engineers insist on working full time, then what happens is that one engineer does the work of three people which means two people either end up unemployed or they must do pointless busy work so that the engineer's ego isn't broken because he thinks he is some kind of hero overworking himself for the sake of lazy people living on government benefits.
Keynes would say something like, "if there are private interests standing in the way of building housing and the like, then burying bank notes in the ground and making people dig them up would be better than... nothing."
I found an interview with the Replika guy. He said the AI was not safe when it did erotic stuff and that's why they shut it down. I wonder what that really means in detail. There are some deep philosophical questions under all this.
Imho you should have already been looking at human actor porn the way you describe the AI porn, if you want a healthy approach to porn. Obviously women don't behave in real life in bed the way they do when acting out a porn scene. Obviously the digital content has long been digitally enhanced. Obviously sex in porn is to real sex what car chases in movies are to real police chace. My approach doesn't change just because its not filmed anymore. Its entertainment, but was never meant to depict realistic people having real intercourse.
Pics or STFU. Seriously, though, you could post a screenshot of one those fake 10/10 faces you are talking about. You're already anonymous. Otherwise, I don't buy this.
If what you say is true, that better-than-real porn can be produced for $200, then porn stars will all be redundant within a year. I think that would be a good thing, as many porn stars are victims of abuse. Although I think more harm will be done to the consumers, it's probably a net win overall.
Those are photos, and most have obviously strange artifacts. A full video is an order of magnitude harder. And don't believe they can be created for $200.
> Seriously, though, you could post a screenshot of one those fake 10/10 faces you are talking about. You're already anonymous. Otherwise, I don't buy this.
If what you say is true, that better-than-real porn can be produced for $200, then porn stars will all be redundant within a year.
Soooo... you seem to be aware that this is an unhealthy habit, and that AI-generated porn will make it worse. I could write something generic here about AI or porn vs. mental health but instead I'm going to probably sound judgmental. I'm not; you do you; your brains are made to be stimulated any way you want to stimulate them. But you said some things seemingly in distress that are big red flags. Stop reading now if hearing a raw opinion about your comment will bother you.
Several things you mentioned are going to be terrible for your ability to form future relationships or partake in society. You probably already realize all of these but they aren't what other people will openly point out to you, so maybe hearing it from another human will be good.
1./ Looking to see your fetishes performed by 10/10 models. I have no idea your gender or orientation, or what you consider 10/10, it could be anything. But you know that no one is perfect to anyone else IRL when you spend a few minutes with them. They're human. They fart. If you like farts, they burp. If you like burps, they don't burp. Fantasy is fine but numbing yourself to the point where you only get off on fantasy is a never-ending cycle. The last fantasy 10/10 only gets you off until the next one.
2./ On a more basic level, pulling your trigger (clit, dick, both, whatever) is one of lots of things you can be doing. If you want to spend money on making it nice, that's cool; but it's essentially an infantile experience. Look, if you said the same exact thing about buying a Ferrari and driving it real fast, I'd say the exact same thing about this being infantile. You can let peak experiences take over your brain for an hour or two, or a week, or a month, but this must be ephemeral - temporary - or else they aren't peak experiences anymore.
1 + 2 / Rewiring your brain to constantly seek peak 10/10 experiences is the definition of a drug-seeking addiction. You're recognizing that it's going to interfere with your basic wiring and you haven't even gone full-throttle on it. It's not what will come next in AI that will ruin you... it's you looking for it.
Everything you said here could have been said by someone addicted to child porn or heroin. I'm not equating your harmless use of AI gratification with the negative social implications of those things; I'm just saying that you're already preemptively blaming the fact that it's there because you know that it's fuckin bad for you.
I always said I'd smoke crack and do heroin on my deathbed, but not til then, because I'd like it too much. Fake porn of 10/10s doing your fetishes is just crack. Get a real 4/10 person to do them with you and you'll be a much happier, fuller person with a life and not just a bunch of overstimulated neurons.
I don't think so. The nakedness of a 10/10 virtual girl is not in the same league as the nakedness of a 4/10 real girl. That's not a gap that can be overcome by the virtual girl's nakedness getting better and better. As proof, I'm 100% certain that I would choose a relationship with a 4/10 real girl over a 10/10 virtual girl's nakedness without a second thought.
aw hey thanks. I'm glad you weren't offended.
It's pretty crazy how many things are competing to turn us into machines these days... into consumers and addicts in so many parts of our life. Definitely no judgment here. I'm an alcoholic; I understand. You sound like your rational brain wants to put up a wall between you and that flood of happy chemicals, to preserve itself. Self denial is a life saver. Weirdly enough, the same happy chemicals show up again pretty soon in a new form after you get off an addiction to something. (hopefully they attach themselves to something productive... not always, but it's worth rebooting when you know you're trapped)
I'm gonna ask something awful, but isn't this the end of child porn? It's sad but isn't it the least painful option? I wish it would then lead the people that need mental health to a professional, hell, couldn't we engineer an ai that progressively guides their misguided patterns to an acceptable level? (assuming such a thing exists)
It’s not awful because it has been addressed before. Sure, if you can create child porn at your demand there’s no reason to go look for the real thing, at least in theory.
There are a couple of problems though. How would the model be trained? It has to process child faces. This is a huge red flag by itself. The second problem is that it might get more people addicted to child porn. If it becomes so easy to access who can tell how many more will find it attractive. And then you’ll end up with a much bigger problem than the one you had when started.
I think many people would agree to that sentiment. Anecdotally, the number of people who identify as gay or bisexual and/or are interested in same-sex sex has only increased tremendously as the amount of gay pornography has increased.
Arguably much of it only due to destigmatisation and legislation. But even then it only seems obvious that many people who would otherwise have lived "straight lives" have been "introduced" to homosexuality due to gay porn, as the number of "this makes me question my sexuality" comments under various gay-erotic content show.
> If it becomes so easy to access who can tell how many more will find it attractive.
The same argument is regularly brought up around drugs. Modifying chemical formulas brings out stuff like 1P-LSD, which is a functional analogue of LSD, but has been legal in lots of countries for years because it wasn't covered by the existing laws. With that argument, you'd expect everyone and their aunt to be tripping, but we didn't. There's a subculture that is interested in psychotropic drugs, but it's small, and availability doesn't increase it.
That's not awful at all its just a topic that makes people queasy, and an outcome which blueballs those who are into hating pedos first and protecting children as an afterthought.
Drawings (in manga form for instance) depicting underage sex are considered child pornography in many jurisdictions. Prison sentences are given for having it.
AI generated cp is most certainly also cp.
I just absolutely fail to see the issue with CGI porn, even of the underage variety (because let's face it, that's all anyone is going to care about when it comes to banning it).
Trying to argue that fake pictures of non existent kids doing bad shit is somehow "child porn" is about as dumb as saying Saw (the movie) is an actual snuff film.
Is it vulgar and offensive - of course. Is it child porn - no, because the person in the picture does not exist.
This sort of thing makes me wonder about paraphilia’s that might emerge - images which might tweak some human reactions in a way that human bodies just can’t. Like those flowers that mimic female flies so well the males prefer them to actual female flies.
People have suggested this has already happened with the unrealistic portrayals in porn, in regards to the acts themselves being easier (and with less concerns about cleaning up before or after), and also with body shapes focusing on and emphasising certain traits that are uncommon to the point that IRL they're either unhealthy or require surgery.
(I don't know if such claims are well founded, just that I've heard them).
That would require a lot of people to rate generated images, to use as feedback to push the training in that direction? How are they going to pay them for all that work? Oh, wait, ...
Art already does that! Don‘t you know about furry porn? Hyper, macro, vore -there are all kinds of fetishes that would be impossible in real life. Insane hyperoptimizations.
Well, if the nature documentary I saw is to be believed, they eventually get tired of the plant not acting quite right and go find a real female fly. (IIRC it’s some sort of orchid)
Which I guess makes evolutionary sense - you want to use the fly for pollination, but you can’t be so sexy it completely gives up on procreation, or you run out of pollinators!
,,putting women in the porn industry out of a job''
Sounds like a great thing. The industry is getting 18 year old women who don't have experience in managing money to sell their body for a few thousand dollars to be shown forever, then their porn value drops dramatically fast.
I fear the day when I realize I can only be aroused by pictures of artificia-ladies with 7.5 or more fingers on each hand and an ever-changing amount of nipples.
Note that this article is from four months ago. Their Patreon and Kickstarter have been suspended but they collected money on their website and they will first focus on making yet another anime model.
Whoever operates it can keep all the simp payments and doesn’t need to share with the sex workers. Just needs an LLM that tells the simps how funny and special they are.
No because unfortunately Patreon, like every other service, is forced to use Mastercard and Visa who have decided they are the arbiters of morality in our society.
The issue has never been that the adult industry balked at dispute fees. PSD2 enforced two-factor payment checks also make disputes much less of an issue. This is entirely about Visa/Mastercard simply refusing to work with some industries.
That's a lame excuse tbh. If they had no objection they'd allow it for every merchant and then only after said merchant has a lot of "disputes,etc" would they then block said merchant from selling such services. They even have a genuinely good reason then!!
It's like saying "yeah we don't service the entire Chinese and Russian IP block because of risk and lots of hacking coming form there."
moderation was never as important as it will be in the new "AI age" of generated content
There should be a mechanism to make sure people dont dive into a rabbit hole and get stuck on whatever type of generated content they want to consume (whether that is porn, conspiration theories, or opinionated content)
"The generated porn could have negative consequences particularly for marginalized groups, the ethicists say, including the artists and adult actors who make a living creating porn to fulfill customers’ fantasies"
There is the problem of it replacing real jobs, but this is not unique to the field.
The main problem, in my eyes, is AI porn that mimics real people. This is the main place I'd like to see some real restriction.