Lol for almost all human history working all a day was the norm.
I don’t necessarily have to do that much work, but I want to get ahead. Most people I grew up with work 40-70hrs a week, often two to three jobs.
It’s natural for me to work that much. I don’t even blink at it. What else would you do? Play video games, watch tv, “party”? I can accomplish and build things and spend the rest of the time with family and friends. It’s a good life imo
> What else would you do? Play video games, watch tv, “party”?
Sorry, but this is such a sad statement to me. I mean, unless you absolutely love the field you work in, in which case that's amazing, go for it! But if you're like the rest of us, there's so much to see & do in life besides work! As an example, I'm reading, learning to cook, traveling, and trying to get fit. These provide their own satisfaction & meaning in ways that work doesn't.
On the contrary, I feel sort of sad that so many people seem to find their work unfulfilling. I work a job that’s more work than some alternatives could be. I could at any point quit and find easier work that paid better. But I chose to work here, right? I’m privileged enough to not be obligated to stay. I’ll assume most people here have similar flexibility.
I find the “cooking as alternative” suggestion interesting too. I can understand the desire work on a creation for yourself (a meal), but for me that’s balanced by the desire to create something amazing for the world. By the same token, I could take every Friday off and work on a side project, but fundamentally that’s not going to be as fun or productive as working on the main project I’ve chosen to work on: ie, my job.
Now raising a family I can totally see as a competing interest, if I were raising children I would be working less. But I’m not (yet).
I hear what you’re saying but since this is hacker news we’re mostly white collar and we’re not talking about all human history, we’re talking about 2023+.
I spend my entire weekend with my kids for one thing. Don’t you miss out on things? And yes I play video games or do literally anything other than work before bed. If you’re including side projects you actually want to build in your 60 hours, that’s totally different of course. And I also don’t mean to judge, as the people working those 2-3 jobs NEED to do it. Nobody wants to.
> I get to spend every morning 7am-noon with my kids.
I work from home, so I have no commute (saves a boatload of time) and get to eat every meal with the family (who ever is home). I also spend probably 4-7 hrs with my children every day (and all day Sunday’s). I’m pretty more involved, but sure I miss some stuff. I can’t do afternoon / evenings (unless it’s 5-7pm).
In terms of my work breakdown, I tend to do 60-70 hrs. But I code and manage our farm part time (kids will eventually assist with). That’s probably 50 hrs coding/designing, 10-20 hrs on the farm, depending. That obviously will shift a bit depending on weather. I also take 2-3 weeks off coding work to harvest; which are like 12 hr days for a week at a time.
Appreciate hearing your story! This is why I refuse to get chickens, let alone actually farm! I’m not disagreeing that this is a great amount of time with the kids, as many people see theirs way less than they would like. Still I can’t imagine losing half of my precious weekend, and in fact want another day of weekend like the people in this article. But not enough to take a pay cut because I’d rather take the money now and retire earlier. Cheers!
> for almost all human history working all a day was the norm.
References for that? Didn't they do studies showing that e.g. hunter-gather type tribes such as Kalahari bushmen had about the same amount of downtime as modern Westerners?
At any rate, the sort of work you're doing makes a huge difference as to how sustainable doing it 60 hours a week is.
(Quote from article linked below:
“Our hunter-gatherer ancestors almost certainly did not endure ‘nasty, brutish, and short‘ lives,” he writes of seminal studies of the Ju/’hoansi, a hunter-gatherer group living in southern Africa. “The Ju/’hoansi were revealed to be well fed, content, and longer-lived than people in many agricultural societies, and by rarely having to work more than 15 hours per week had plenty of time and energy to devote to leisure.”)
As a manager, I always measured by consistency. I could care less about how much someone worked, frankly.
The engineers would commit and if they met their commitments they were usually good. Sometimes I’d have to nudge them one way or the other, but rarely did I see an issue.
I tended to try to inspire others - aka you can design your own projects, deadlines, etc. My job was to guide, provide cover / funds and ensure success is recognized. My teams were definitely intense at times, but always self-committed and everyone became invested. That’s how to help people grow the most and get the most out of them imo.
That said, most of our deliverables I always pushed publicly (parents, papers, open source, etc). This ensured good future job prospects.
