I downvoted you because of the sentence "Because if you didn't, you REALLY need to shut it and keep your ideas out of their mouths.".
The point you rised at "Serious question. Did you ask these black artists?" is a valid, reasonable point that merits discussion.
But the point raised by the parent post is also a valid, interesting point that merits discussion. And that point raised a valuable discussion EVEN IF they did not "ask these black artists", and if we put this bar and demand them to shut it, that's a bad thing for the discussion.
So in my view you made an insulting demand for someone to "shut it" without reasonable grounds to do so, and this definitely deserves a downvote or five. I'm not asking you to "shut it", you should participate in this discussion, but in a civil manner that also allows posts like the parent post to participate in the discussion even if they don't meet your demands.
I absolutely did because in my experience a lot of people do this all too often, and it warrants an immediate reaction. I will gladly apologize if I am wrong, but it seems like most people here don't understand the harm that "non-black people speaking for black people" causes. It is SIGNIFICANTLY more rude and harmful than my tone here.
I apologize for nothing; it is most everyone else here that needs to do better.
What really causes harm is when you divide people up into groups based on arbitrary characteristics (like skin color) and treat those characteristics like they're the sole defining aspect of each person's identity, like you're doing right now.
Framing this as "non-black people speaking for black people" carries the implicit assumption that all black people have the same/similar opinions; that an arbitrary black person would be able to meaningfully "speak for [all] black people" in a way that an arbitrary non-black person can't. That's wrong.
The previous commenter making an educated guess based on personal experience with zero concrete data points is only slightly worse than making that same guess based on one concrete data point, and neither situation would be justification for telling anyone to "shut it" or "do better" in my opinion.
Wrong. Just wrong. And to people who look like me, harmful.
Now to be specific, I didn't make any generalizations about black folks, I was telling others not to. But, even if, I'm still pointing out a specific issue that I can observe and give other examples of, and you cannot "both ways" it. White people making presumptions about what black people think is more harmful than black people making presumptions about what black people think.
This owes to the fact that frequently -- said white person will only be talking to other white people and now you've cut black folks out of the conversation. Black people talking about each other is much different. Skin in the game.
I've been monitoring artist forums since day 1 of SD's release. From various subreddits, to discord communities, to 4chan, to forums in other languages. I've never seen an artist complain even ONCE about bias, it is always, always, always, about jobs/copyright('stealing').
The question in your previous comment is totally fair, IMO.
Trouble is, I genuinely don't know what to usefully suggest, because the obvious thing that comes to mind (focus on the actual question and strip the aggression) is a cliché to the point where I suspect I already know your response will be some
form of eye-roll at my privilege etc.
And it would be a legit response, too, given that people presuming to know me is annoying enough even without it being a daily experience.
It's pretty simple; many (I'm presuming) white people have a deeply nasty habit of conflating their own experiences with others because it makes sense to them, and THAT problem should be recognized.
Just don't do it. or at the very least serve it up with a heaping helping of "I would imagine that many..." so we know that this is JUST YOUR SPECULATION.
It would be great if telling people that made them act differently; but call it Armchair Generals, or typical mind fallacy, or mansplaining, or Dunning-Krugering, or ivory-tower academics… the problem has so many forms and even knowing about it makes it hard to avoid in oneself.
Sure; one thing for me about comments here: I'm not making them just for the other people here. I'm making them for myself. -- I wouldn't feel right if I read garbage and just let it stand, though I know it may not change minds.
I didnt downvote you and agree with your general point, but consider that maybe downvotes came in due to your tone rather than your meaning. I actually normally would
downvote a comment written like yours was, just less so when I think it's making a still-important point (but you're less likely to convince anyone your point is important if you annoy them rather than try to enlighten them!)
Not sure what you mean "as I said prior", unless you're annoyed that I hadn't looked into the future to see replies about tone you hadn't written when I posted my comment...
But anyway, I wasn't complaining, just pointing out my view (since you asked about being downvoted) that by using that tone, however justified it can feel to lower to somebody else's level, you will get some people who take less note of what you're actually saying or who downvote without thinking about the subject beyond "I dislike seeing that tone in HN comments".
Did you ask these black artists? Because if you didn't, you REALLY need to shut it and keep your ideas out of their mouths.