Is this supposed to be an actual barrier to handle when the pilot goes to the bathroom?
The current protocol has the flight attendant block off the aisle with the food cart to block someone from rushing the flight deck. Or at least slow them down enough for the co-pilot to lock the door.
It seems to me a second door should render the need of securing the primary door less necessary.
That Germanwings flight haunts me more than any other in-flight scenario. So keep the new door secured like the existing primary. Make the primary unlockable with a key.
We should take away their shoelaces, just in case the pilot tries to garrote his copilot. Velcro shoes work fine, and a minor fashion offense is a small price to pay to prevent this scenario.
It would be cheaper to install a two way drawer on the existing security barrier that would allow flight attendants to pass food and beverage to the cockpit and allow pilots to pass their faeces out.
They could pee in bottles and we'd have pilot bombs instead of trucker bombs. But you can't use the word bombs on airplanes so they'd need to call them something else.
I came here to say this. An airlock is exactly what they need. Although not necessarily literally an airlock in a sense that it needn't be airtight, but just that you can't open both doors simultaneously.
A vestibule. This is common practice in the SCIFs that are used to protect classified data -- makes it harder to gain access, also makes it harder to see in from outside. Makes sense to have it on planes for similar reasons.
Passengers already know to not comply with hijackers. Since 9/11 everyone who has attempted something has gotten a beating and then restrained by passengers until an emergency landing could occur. I can't see an extra door helping much knowing that.
the idea is to create an 'air-lock' between openings to prevent a rush towards the cabin opportunistically during an assault when a crew member traverses between the portal.
"physical secondary barrier that protects the
flightdeck from unauthorized intrusion when the flightdeck door is opened."
worst case I suppose you could lock a bad-actor into the in-between until landing? not exactly sure how it'll all be implemented really.
Yeah, it’s funny what happens when the pilots need to access the head. The flight attendants move a cart to block the pathway while the cockpit door is open. I tend to agree with FAA that this is an unnecessary vulnerability if we can easily add a secondary secure door between the cabin and the galley.
That's not exactly a logical comparison. We know the threat vector exists, we are already taking steps to defend against it (moving food cart in the way).
It's just a door, I am pro literal defenses and against security theatre. Maybe if we shore up the cabin we can relax some of the other bullshit theatre going on.
Well, let me know when a tiger grounds tens of thousands of flights, prompts an invasion and ushers in the post 9/11 security and privacy policies brought in by the war on terror.
The tiger could probably jump over the cart though, maybe we should be worried.
Let me know when lack of double doors does any of that. That sort of issue was resolved more than 20 years ago when passengers learned they need to fight back or die.
The threat no longer exists. You're scared of imaginary tigers.
I'm not scared, I live in a country with some sanity. But jetliners around the world also have flight deck doors. You are being a bit silly, airflight was new, a few pretty serious incidents occured, we put in some doors and the potential for it to happen again goes away.
It's less like an imaginary tiger and more like patching a really obvious risk with a cheap solution. Rather than relying on some wild dramatic movie hero scenario to play out, just close a little door. No big deal.
> But jetliners around the world also have flight deck doors.
That change (arguably itself unnecessary) was made in response an incident that happened shortly before that change was made. This new change is being made in response to... that same incident 20 years ago, which hasn't repeated.
Do you know how they have that curtain on some airplanes to separate you from first class? It's kind of like that. It's probably the flight attendants want something they can pull across to keep you from coming up and bothering them.
It's such a ridiculous theater. If a terrorist really wanted to bring down an airplane, nothing the TSA or the airports are currently doing will stop them. There's way too many holes.
The passengers, however, will stop them. It only used to work because the passengers thought it was a hijacking they could maybe survive. Once that hope was gone, it stopped working. Both on 9/11, and several times afterwards.
If you want to bring down the airplane in general, there are multiple things you can do, but if you want to bring it down in a specific location, you either have to somehow hack the control systems, or break into the cockpit. For example if you want to crash the airplane into a skyscraper.
That isn't a thing that happens anymore, because passengers don't tolerate anybody making trouble. This double-doors stuff is alarmist theater for a fabricated threat.
> passengers don't tolerate anybody making trouble
Examples of this? The shoe bomber is one, but the shoe bomber was solo. I don't know what a situation would look like in a 9/11 attack where you have 4-5 attackers. Esp in a widebody jet
Because the only example we have of passengers fighting back against multiple armed hijackers ended in flight 93. A single passenger is easy, see the shoe bomber. I don’t think everyone will get so righteous if 10 people were threatening a flight.
Armored flight deck doors are the real winner here
On current domestic flights the flight door hinges are 2 inches from bathroom hinges. So if there's now the need for two doors (an airlock) will they be lengthening the plane 3 feet to allow for this?
The secondary barrier would have to be between the cabin and the lavatory, so that the pilot can go to from the cockpit to the lavatory on their side of the barrier. So I imagine that whenever the pilot is not about to or actively using the lavatory that barrier would be left open so that passengers can access it.
Some (all?) U.S. domestic airlines currently have this exact system in place, except with a flight attendant standing guard between the first row of seats and the galley/lavatory/cockpit, starting just before the pilot opens the cockpit door. I have no idea if this has been a regulation thing or just a thing I notice the airlines I fly do, but this physical barrier would probably follow the same usage pattern as the current meat-based barrier.
Does it need to be 3 foot multiplied by the width of the plane? Why not a box or cage a bit smaller than a toilet? Hell you could make a retractable person sized cage inside or outside the cockpit.
The current protocol has the flight attendant block off the aisle with the food cart to block someone from rushing the flight deck. Or at least slow them down enough for the co-pilot to lock the door.