Dude if your religion needs 2000 years of theologians to interpret correctly, all the while being a pretext for war, genocide, racism, sexism, and an accidental source of child abuse, your religion sucks and the world would be better off without it.
You don't need "better Christians" -- you need people to stop being Christians.
> Also there's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about what teachings are, what Jesus really said, a misunderstanding that God is somehow punitive or vengeful which Jesus tried to clear up but we still seem to fall victim to.
That your religion is this incoherent is itself a huge problem and the source of many ills.
> I agree with you about churches perpetuating problematic power structures, clericalism and so forth.. But that in itself is people's failings isn't it? Doesn't mean that all or even many Christians are supportive of that.
You're saying blame the priest who diddled kids, not the church that teaches priests to repress their natural urges until they manifest in taking advantage of defenseless children. You're saying blame the idiots who "misinterpreted" the Bible and created churches where women cannot lead, and not the texts that provide the argument for their behavior. That's not agreeing with me on problematic power structures, that's failing to see problematic power structures.
> Treatment of women - often women are not treated well , whether in the church or not. Shouldn't be happening.. but again human failings rather than something fundamental about religion or church per se, IMHO.
Except that the basis for western oppression for women is largely rooted in Judeo-Christian beliefs. And in the middle east, Islam is the source.
Someone downvoted you but it wasn't me. We possibly shouldn't carry this on too long in case people feel its gone way off topic, but.. these are important subjects. To address some of your points :). "if your religion needs 200 yr of theologians" ... its not the religion, its the Bible. Big difference. Its hardly surprising if a book written 2000 yrs ago, totally different time, culture etc, needs expertise to be understood , and going to it directly and trying to make sense of it cause confusion, right? Pretext for genocide etc... well, terrible things have been done in the name of religion, but terrible things happen with or without religion. Look at Russia/Ukraine. I'd argue its not religion causing it. People that want to hate will find something to fight about be it religion, resources, power, football teams etc. I do agree actually that where people's beliefs are incoherent this is the source of many ills. But I'd argue against that being the fundamental religion being incoherent. Regarding abuse by clerics, I do agree, and I think a lot of Christians would, that the rule of celibacy for priests is extremely unhelpful, and has led as you say, to deviant behaviour and abuse that has wrecked people's lives. The response by church(es) has been severely lacking, often appalling, and the main reason for that would seem to be that the hierarchy themselves are celibate, not having normal healthy relationships and haven't a clue how what to do. So I, like many others would advocate ditch the celibacy requirement ASAP. The hierarchy don't necessarily think they can do that though, they think they'll alienate churches in the developing world, cause a schism etc, its a mess. But, and you may think I'm an idiot to say this, I argue again, that's human failings, and doesn't mean that the religion should be thrown away as unworkable. I would believe, that's not what Jesus would have wanted. Now, maybe you don't believe, and that's absolutely fine. No-one should ever be pressured into having any beliefs or religion (yet another thing unhelpful people have done within the church, and again, nevertheless not a reason to disband it IMHO). But I would say, maybe stay away from the church if you don't believe, but if you have any hint of belief, try to fix these problems. By, like I say, challenging people. Regarding Judaism, Christianity and Islam being the source of oppression of women, that's certainly an interesting one, I'd have to go away and think about that. Gut feeling , its unlikely to be the only source of that, but I know what you're saying there's certainly been structural oppression of women within organised religion. To summarise I think a lot of things that anger you about the church its absolutely fair to be furious about, and these issues massively frustrate people inside it who still regularly go to church. Where we differ is indeed that you say people should stop being Christians whereas I do indeed say people should be better Christians. Hope you can find happiness and purpose anyway whatever route you take. :)
You don't need "better Christians" -- you need people to stop being Christians.
> Also there's a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about what teachings are, what Jesus really said, a misunderstanding that God is somehow punitive or vengeful which Jesus tried to clear up but we still seem to fall victim to.
That your religion is this incoherent is itself a huge problem and the source of many ills.
> I agree with you about churches perpetuating problematic power structures, clericalism and so forth.. But that in itself is people's failings isn't it? Doesn't mean that all or even many Christians are supportive of that.
You're saying blame the priest who diddled kids, not the church that teaches priests to repress their natural urges until they manifest in taking advantage of defenseless children. You're saying blame the idiots who "misinterpreted" the Bible and created churches where women cannot lead, and not the texts that provide the argument for their behavior. That's not agreeing with me on problematic power structures, that's failing to see problematic power structures.
> Treatment of women - often women are not treated well , whether in the church or not. Shouldn't be happening.. but again human failings rather than something fundamental about religion or church per se, IMHO.
Except that the basis for western oppression for women is largely rooted in Judeo-Christian beliefs. And in the middle east, Islam is the source.
It's all garbage.