Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

According to the article she paid $20k and her lawsuit says that she wants that money back since he didn't have a legal right to collect rent. Assuming her account is correct (and it sounds like the city agrees this was an illegal rental) why is it unreasonable for her to remain in the unit until he pays restitution? Why should the fine go to the city (and do you think the fine should be less than the amount collected in rent?)



Demanding all your rent back is ridiculous. That there may not have been a license is a matter for the appropriate authorities to deal with such matters.

Fact is the services were rendered and that some bureaucratic procedure may not have been entirely correct, something she did not suffer any damages from, is frankly none of the tenant's business but between the city and landlord.

This has all the hallmarks of someone intentionally trying to find flaws to exploit (also see the whole business with the shower).


Depends on the legal language of the lease.

If there’s any language regarding the dwelling being habitable, then the lack of a license makes it by definition not a habitable dwelling and thus the he never fulfilled his end of the agreement, making it necessary to refund the rent paid.

In other words, services might be rendered, but not the services as agreed upon in the lease.

The secondary matter would be if occupying someone’s property is an allowable remedy until the payment is made, which is a bit more thorny, on the other hand, occupation notwithstanding, it’s not uncommon to maintain possession of someone’s property until payment is made as a form of leverage (e.g. keeping a customer’s laptop until they’ve made payment for repairs made on said laptop).

What’s interesting is that he’s a Netherlands native, but then acts stumped about LA’s Just Cause requirement.

In the Netherlands leases for consumers are always under a Just Cause principle and pretty much the only way to cancel a lease as a landlord is non-payment.

End dates in leases are void, landlord wanting to occupy the property themselves is not a valid reason to cancel the lease, sale of property is not a valid reason to cancel the lease (lease gets transferred over to new owner).

Basically the only way to get a tenant out is if the tenant cancels the lease themselves or if there’s a significant period of non-payment.


That is quite insane. I guess many owners keep their flats empty rather than renting them under these conditions. Ultimately, this decreases supply and drives prices up.


The alternative is also insane, when the property owner can break your lease and kick your family out of your residence at their whim (often by claiming owner occupancy)

The legislature has to choose who gets the power in rental relationships and i see the arguments for either choice.


> If there’s any language regarding the dwelling being habitable, then the lack of a license makes it by definition not a habitable dwelling

By which definition of "habitable"? Because I've never seen a definition of "habitable" that involves legal licensing issues.




Join us for AI Startup School this June 16-17 in San Francisco!

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: